Synagogue Shooting in Pittsburgh

[Lexicus]

Yup, and then it's impossible to not conflate the two episodes. People's anti-Israel bias leads them to write sentences that then appear to be anti-semitic, and the writer is anti-Israel enough that they fall for it over and over.

This second sentence is constructed far too ambiguously to make sense to me.

It is perfectly possible not to conflate the two episodes. In fact out of everyone posting in this thread I would wager that only you and perhaps MW are conflating them.

 

[HoloDoc]

I can dislike Israel without disliking Jews. And I can dislike Jews and see Israel as some sort of shining example of how to treat ethnic minorities. I'm well aware that Mouthwash tries to excuse everything Israel, or its BFFs like the Religious Right, does by insinuating that everyone who doesn't fellate them is antisemitic. Doesn't work.

 

[Lexicus]

And I can dislike Jews and see Israel as some sort of shining example of how to treat ethnic minorities.

Ironically, this position actually is a mainstream one within the "white nationalist" movement. Richard Spencer for example has explicitly praised Israel as a model ethnostate, a fact that Mouthwash brushes aside or ignores every time it's brought up.

 

[Mouthwash]

I'm back. It's been a week, but I don't like leaving things unfinished.

Please illuminate for me how your statement isn't terrible hyperbole? harassing someone is violence now? In a nation that suffers a mass shooting every day? Please.

If it includes kicking down someone's front door and yelling threats, then yes.

Do you believe Trump's rhetoric inspired the Magabomber?

No. Nothing Trump has said would indicate he blamed Jews for the caravan.

In 1948? Because I clearly stated "post-British govt in the Mandate," and my use of the past tense was explicit. Nice try though.

I think you're just throwing words around and hoping something sticks.

Just like Arabs in Israel?

No, Israeli-Arabs are much less violent than the American left is right now.

US aid to Saudi Arabia sits at $732 thousand per year. US aid to Israel sits at $3.1 billion per year. This is probably an oversimplification, of course, Saudi Arabia has received all kinds of assistance other than direct monetary aid, but none the less, you can see that, as budget items, one is going to require a lot more justification than the other, and therefore incur far greater scrutiny. Whether this is ideology or strategy- as if the two are clearly distinct- is besides the point.

What you're neglecting to mention is that the 'other kinds of assistance' are often dozens of times larger than the direct aid.

Saudi Arabia is an exception, because it generally transfers the money to the US and receives arms in return. Maybe you heard about the $350 billion arms deal? And even before the deal, almost ten percent of all US arms exports went to them. Israel doesn't even seem worth mentioning next to that.

So ... y'all fell for it. A synagogue got shot up, people murdered, and the conversation ended up being about Israel. Stop letting people conflate the two, even in theme.

Twelfth post in this thread was someone mocking the right for supporting Israel (or something). Possibly he just wanted to kick off a flame-war. But don't point the finger at me.

Ironically, this position actually is a mainstream one within the "white nationalist" movement. Richard Spencer for example has explicitly praised Israel as a model ethnostate, a fact that Mouthwash brushes aside or ignores every time it's brought up.

This is a categorical lie.

 

[Traitorfish]

What you're neglecting to mention is that the 'other kinds of assistance' are often dozens of times larger than the direct aid.

Saudi Arabia is an exception, because it generally transfers the money to the US and receives arms in return. Maybe you heard about the $350 billion arms deal? And even before the deal, almost ten percent of all US arms exports went to them. Israel doesn't even seem worth mentioning next to that.

I don't understand why you would think any of this is a refutation of, or even, really, a response to what I said.

 

[Estebonrober]

If it includes kicking down someone's front door and yelling threats, then yes.


This is a categorical lie.

No one kicked down anyone’s door. Threats are part of this world now unfortunately and I expect that to worsen. Your hyperbole isn’t helping that situation.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mi...macist-praises-israels-nation-state-bill/amp/

Obviously calling it a categorical lie is more hyperbole.

 

[Farm Boy]

Now?

 

[Cutlass]

No, Israeli-Arabs are much less violent than the American left is right now.

75% of political violence in the US is the Christian Right. 25% is the Islamic Right. Why are you blaiming the left for being more violent than the actual terrorists?

 

[Mouthwash]

I don't understand why you would think any of this is a refutation of, or even, really, a response to what I said.

Traitorfish: Israel gets much more US military aid than Saudi Arabia.
Mouthwash: No, they only get more direct monetary aid, which is not a useful measure of real military aid.

What exactly is unclear to you?

No one kicked down anyone’s door.

The fact that they failed doesn't make them better.

Threats are part of this world now unfortunately and I expect that to worsen.

So if I threaten to track you down and break your legs, that's not something you can go to the police over?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mi...macist-praises-israels-nation-state-bill/amp/

I meant that he was lying that I'd 'brushed it aside' or 'ignored' it. I've responded pretty forcefully every time it is brought up. Lexicus is just trying to bait me.

75% of political violence in the US is the Christian Right. 25% is the Islamic Right. Why are you blaiming the left for being more violent than the actual terrorists?

Gosh this statistic seems real trustworthy.

Also worth noting that direct attacks aren't the only form of violence. Here's Antifa illegally directing traffic in Portland (NSFW):

 

[Timsup2nothin]

So if I threaten to track you down and break your legs, that's not something you can go to the police over?

Depends. Is there any indication that you have the intention or the means to carry it out?

 

[Cutlass]

Gosh this statistic seems real trustworthy.

Direct attacks aren't necessarily the only form of violence. Here's Antifa illegally directing traffic in Portland (NSFW):

So terrorism isn't violence. Opposing terrorists is. Got it.

 

[Mouthwash]

Depends. Is there any indication that you have the intention or the means to carry it out?

Let's say I'm dead serious about it, I know what general area he lives in and have his picture from a members' photos thread. According to him, that's just something we have to accept as normal.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Let's say I'm dead serious about it, I know what general area he lives in and have his photo from a members' picture thread. According to him, that's just something we have to accept.

That isn't means. If you show up in his town, or at least his country, there might be something to it, but that's still iffy. Threats delivered over large distances are very hard to take seriously.

 

[Mouthwash]

Whatever you say. Let's assume I meet those conditions.

 

[Berzerker]

No. Nothing Trump has said would indicate he blamed Jews for the caravan.

The Magabomber is the guy who sent bombs to people Trump had been naming as the enemy, Dem leaders, media, and the Jewish Judas George Soros. It was George Soros and his minions who were behind the caravan. There is no doubt in my mind Trump helped 'trigger' this guy with his BS about an invasion of enemies and how Soros was the ringleader of a conspiracy to replace neo-Nazis. The Bernie Sanders supporter who shot Republicans at a softball practice was motivated in part by the hyperbole tossed around by the Dems.

This raises an interesting 1st Amendment/free speech question: if we cant yell fire in a crowded theater why can politicians demonize their opponents?

 

[Estebonrober]

Let's say I'm dead serious about it, I know what general area he lives in and have his picture from a members' photos thread. According to him, that's just something we have to accept as normal.

I did not say accept it, and of course any real threats should be investigated by the relevant authorities. I meant it as a phrase expressing the sad reality we are in.

Also I consider it significantly better that they didn't manage to break in, although I'm also confused as I'm pretty sure they were just pounding on it police style and not actually trying to knock it down. Obviously if you are Mr. Carlson's wife being treated like a second class citizen (or non citizen for that matter) might be very disturbing. Which I kind of think was the point of the protest, and while I might not agree with the tactic, it will become more common in the near future I fear.

 

[Estebonrober]

Gosh this statistic seems real trustworthy.

Also worth noting that direct attacks aren't the only form of violence. Here's Antifa illegally directing traffic in Portland (NSFW):

Should be noted here that you responded to a statistic with a post about leftists not actually being violent and conflating it with violence.

https://qz.com/1435885/data-shows-more-us-terror-attacks-by-right-wing-and-religious-extremists/

The number of people killed in terrorist attacks on U.S. soil is small, but some ideologies inspire more terrorism than others. Islamists have killed about 14 times as many people as Nationalist and Right Wing terrorists who, in turn, have killed about 10 times as many people as Left Wing terrorists. Keeping these numbers in perspective should help cut through the partisan spin after the Charlottesville terrorist attack.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/realsp...n-terrorist-attacks-on-u-s-soil/#5b8651141e74

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch...hirds-us-terrorism-tied-right-wing-extremists

https://qz.com/1355874/terrorism-is-surging-in-the-us-fueled-by-right-wing-extremists/

 

[Lexicus]

This is a categorical lie.

Just one example:
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...y-white-nationalist-richard-spencer-1.6295314

 

[Mouthwash]

Please read my post after that.

 

[Estebonrober]

Please read my post after that.

Yea, I've also noticed your silence after I linked a bunch of stats showing how right wing radicalism is of far more concern than left wing radicalism these days. This might change in the future as history has no shortage of left wing radicalism, but like republicans for equality, these things are in the past. Furthermore, I associate Islamic violence with right wing violence since they both get their nectar from the same poisonous fruit of an idealized past and demonizing others in their society.