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Syncretism

Discussion in 'General Balance' started by Stalker0, Nov 24, 2019.

  1. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    Its been a while since I gave Syncretism a real look, so in my recent Shoshone game I gave it a strong try. I was surrounded by 2 other strong religions, so had a lot of passive pressure in my cities. I went heavy faith buildings and no follower beliefs to get Syncretisms best bonus. Now I did not get pagodas, which is definitely a factor to consider.

    And overall...I'm just not impressed. Now the core bonus is nice, I am currently getting +31 science, prod, and faith. You get the culture too but honestly the bonus is so low (+15 culture when I grow a city), that I just consider it +1 culture per city. But you have to pay a lot for it. First of all, I have 14 religious division in my civ currently, and because of it I'm struggling to make the 50% mark, whereas without it I would comfortable be in the 60% happiness range. So the belief is costing me 10% growth, and combat attack. Further, in 4 of my cities that unrest has cost me an additional -10% growth because of local penalties.

    Second, reformations are very difficult. I want to keep all of those foreign followers in my city, which makes getting the threshold much harder. I could inquisitor out the infidels and try to reform, but then I'm getting less bonuses.

    Third, while other beliefs reinforce themselves by magnifying your faith, with Syncretism your cities are constantly trying to weaken the core religion. I have to use missionaries as gardeners to keep things in line, so that evaporates my extra faith, and then there are the turns when my city flips and I lose the syncretism bonus for that round...which adds up here and there.

    Now with pagados perhaps I would feel differently, but I don't like the idea that this belief is only good if you took another specific belief. The bonuses seem nice, but just not worth all of the hassle.


    I know others have spoken well of this belief in the past, so after a while of using it, how do you currently feel?
     
    Coffee Monopoly likes this.
  2. LifeOfBrian

    LifeOfBrian Warlord

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    I have been highly critical of Syncretism for a long time and I never take it. If I were to change it, I'd start by having Syncretism completely eliminating Religious division.
     
  3. amateurgamer88

    amateurgamer88 Emperor

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    From what I've experienced, Syncretism is wonderful when you are on a conquering spree since your neighboring cities are in a different religion so you get bonuses immediately. You convert those conquered cities only to get your reformation and then you don't worry about them. I'd still keep my core cities as my religion since the extra unhappiness isn't that helpful.
     
  4. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    As far as I know, you don't get any bonus from Syncretism if the city itself is not under your religion. So you have to stay the majority, but then keep enough secondary religion around to get a bonus. So you actually get no bonus when you conquer an enemy city. If you flip it with an inquisitor, you get no bonus at the start until new pressure builds up. Or you can pummel it with missionaries, which is a lot more faith effort.

    Now if it does work where the always get the bonus as long as your overall religion remains syncretism, than its a lot stronger than I thought I would understand the appeal.
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  5. amateurgamer88

    amateurgamer88 Emperor

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    I thought the bonus is: +1 :c5faith: Faith, :c5science: Science, and :c5production: Production in Holy City for every 2 Followers of other Religion in owned Cities? It doesn't say ... in owned Cities following this religion, right? Maybe it was changed since I last used it?
     
  6. Kim Dong Un

    Kim Dong Un The One & Unly Supporter

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    I never pick this simply because it's too elaborate and niche. Even if you have the perfect situation to use this belief, how much more are you really squeezing out over another belief that's simpler and straight to the point?
     
  7. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    The belief isn't for trying to allow opponents to convert your own cities. Its for conquering foreign lands and allowing those religions to remain. An extra 200 production and science in your capital can be game-breaking.
     
  8. azum4roll

    azum4roll King

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    Or, as a non-founder with a foreign religion, conquer the holy city with Syncretism and use inquisitors of the former religion on all cities except the holy city.
     
  9. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    So is it confirmed then that in order to use the belief....a city doesn't have to have your majority religion....you just have to have your majority religion active? If that's the case, I'll withdraw my concerns, as that is a lot stronger and more useful than I thought.
     
  10. JamesNinelives

    JamesNinelives Emperor

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    I always thought you need to have your religion active in a city for any of the beliefs from your religion to apply to it. Now I'm not sure though.

    Personally I found the benefits pretty good, even with all of my cities under my religion and regular use of inquisitors to keep them that way (and reduce unhappiness). Maybe that's because I tend to grow large cities, so I get more benefit from yields/follower?

    IMO it's intended for when you have other founders around you and you know you are going to get pressure from them. Normally I would want to keep the max number of my followers and the min number of any else's in my cities, but with Syncretism (and/or Pagodas) it's not so annoying when people keep in spamming missionaries at me.

    In terms of how I know it's working, that's because when I use my inquisitors my yields in various areas actually go down. It's not something I worry about though, as the religious pressure builds back up pretty quickly.

    That said, result may vary depending on game settings. I play with 12 civs so there are typically a lot of different religions around, and on Epic speed so that may give more opportunity for religious pressure to affect me. Not sure.
     
  11. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Emperor

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    I will try to do a Syncretism run to its peak and check, whats possible with it.
    Tradition India Tall with 10-15 puppet cities, all cities with foreign religion except my capital. Lets take a look.
     
    Bromar1 likes this.

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