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Syria shoots down F-16

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Tigranes, Feb 11, 2018.

  1. red_elk

    red_elk Deity

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    Israel's politics is purely pragmatical. If they have technological lead, they use it to their advantage and don't care if it's fair or not. Might makes right.
    But their pragmatism makes them better partners for diplomacy, comparing to certain countries with moral superiority complex.
     
  2. Bugfatty300

    Bugfatty300 Buddha Squirrel

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    Can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen.
     
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  3. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

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    I think it's rather dubious to suggest that a state could have rights. Peoples may have rights, but those aren't absolute (the same way that your right to freedom is violated if you are insane, or your right to property is violated for the purposes of taxation).

    In this case, it's clear that Syria is becoming a satellite of a large country which is extremely hostile to Israel. The cease-fire isn't a contract that both parties entered into and which Israel has violated. It was the political reflection of a geopolitical reality which no longer exists. It never had any meaning. That's why political realism refers to the international realm as "anarchic" - there is no possible contractual system by which countries can abide.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  4. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    So, you're an anarchist? Because I totally agree with this...

    So it's interesting that you think an absence of contract is anarchy. I don't really agree.
     
  5. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    What, undermining the syrian state has led to the syrians depending on allies? Why has Israel been providing support to the islamic fundamentalist rebels against the government in the south of Syria? It would be logical that denying them help and letting the government win and stabilize the state, making those alliances unnecessary, would be the way to go. If that was the real main concern within the israeli government.
     
  6. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    I read most of the wealthy and educated Russian Jews all fled to the West ? Putins pro Slavic policies have driven them all out.
    I dont think Israel would be receptive to Russians sphere

    Also dont confuse moral superiority with stupidity.
     
  7. Takhisis

    Takhisis Jinping, wer fragt uns?

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    up yours.
    They've been buying up football clubs for some time, haven't you heard?
     
  8. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    I think I made the hypocrisy point quite clear. If Syria were to launch airstrikes into Israel targeting groups that Syria believed to be hostile to the Syrian state, I -along with most people- would consider it fully within Israel's right to shoot down the Syrian warplane.* Why then does the same not apply to Syria? Is Syria not entitled to defend their airspace from foreign -and likely hostile- aircraft?

    *I may think it was shortsighted, counterproductive, or an overreaction, but it would be within Israel's right.

    Relations so hostile Israel engaged in covert arms transfers to Iran in the 80s.
     
  9. Takhisis

    Takhisis Jinping, wer fragt uns?

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    up yours.
    And Reagan armed them against Iraq.
     
  10. red_elk

    red_elk Deity

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    Most wealthy Russian Jews are under Western sanctions and have no idea about "Putin's pro-Slavic policies"
     
  11. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    The seven bankers ?
    I see that most ordinary Russians dont really care, replaced one set of oligarchs for another set of oligarchs
    But its odd to see Ivan denying this actually happened. I dont know much about Russian history to be honest.

     
  12. red_elk

    red_elk Deity

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    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
  13. Broken_Erika

    Broken_Erika Nothing

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    There's a difference? :shifty:
     
  14. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

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    No, I'm only saying that the government is the object, not the subject. The endorsement of society gives it legitimacy, but that's a far cry from having rights of its own.

    We're hardly using the same definition. Realism states that every country is out for itself and that this is a built-in aspect of any multipolar system. International organizations and treaties derive their apparent success from cold, hard, realities of power (see: Pax Americana). This doesn't say anything about internal systems of societies.

    I'd like a source for this claim that isn't PressTV.

    If Israel was a failed state hosting militant groups with the stated goal of 'driving the goyim from Damascus' and Syria was a peaceful state (i.e. not wanting to conquer its neighbors), I'd applaud it.

    You're not providing a reason why I should accept that any state has rights.

    I don't think the United States ever endorsed Stalinism or Maoism, but that didn't stop it from working with both Stalin and Mao when the need arose. As for the Iran/Israel situation, there once was a country called Iraq in between them, and that country was considered the more pressing issue.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
  15. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    Leaving out the "failed state" part Israel certainly harbors militants who want to drive the goyim out of Damascus...
     
  16. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

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    Really? I don't remember any Kahanist setting off a bomb in Damascus, but perhaps my memory isn't as good as yours.
     
  17. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    I suppose not all the definitions of "Greater Israel" include Syria. Will you deny that there are plenty of right-wing Israelis who want to see the Greater Israel concept become a reality?
     
  18. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

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    By 'plenty,' you mean quadruple digits at the most? Even among Kahanists (the most right of the right), the majority don't support Greater Israel. Based on my experience, most ordinary Israelis have never even heard of the concept.

    I want to ask where you got the idea that there's support in Israel for it. Even the Palestinian advocacy sites don't make any claims like that. The idea that Israelis want to conquer large swaths of the Middle East exists almost entirely in the Arab world and among Western chemtrail nuts, meaning you're probably getting this from an unsavory source.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
  19. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    Arafat was saying that two blue stripes on Israeli flag means a land between Nile and Euphrates :rolleyes:
     
  20. red_elk

    red_elk Deity

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