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Syrian Civil War: World Leaders Try Again

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Ajidica, Sep 28, 2015.

  1. chijohnaok

    chijohnaok Chieftain

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    As a point of information, here is a map I saw (posted elsewhere) of the area that this occurred in:



    Turkish territory dips into Syria. I suppose it would be relatively easy for a Russian aircraft to have 'accidentally" flown over Turkish territory if it was operating in the area.

    You generally don't have nicely drawn lines on the ground to know exactly where the border is. And if you are flying at ~10,000 feet while doing 500-1000 mph you could overfly that Turkish finger of land wihout realizing it.

    If the Turkish Air Force did issue 10 warnings over a 5 minute period (as was mentioned in an article I read somewhere) before they shot at the aircraft, this should have been ample enough warning to have de-escalated the issue.
     
  2. red_elk

    red_elk Warlord

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    Turks published their version of jet trajectory:



    The strip is about 2-3 kilometers wide. It would take 10-20 seconds for Su-24 to cross it.
     
  3. JustAnotherNerd

    JustAnotherNerd Chieftain

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    This scenario would be possible, if incident would pass unnoticed in a sake of keeping partnership in some spheres.
    Recent cancel of ministerial meeting is not a cancel of all relations ofcourse, but it's a sign. So, words and actions of politicians in Russia have the vector and its direction is escalation rather than "back to normal".
    There is still no any official statement on this of Turkish side?
    Meanwhile it's very interesting and important what they will say, since they shot down jet.
     
  4. kramerfan86

    kramerfan86 Chieftain

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    Turkeys only advantage as an "ally" is location, and it's dubious if that is enough to keep bothering with a twit nation that keeps mucking up the whole situation.
     
  5. Phrossack

    Phrossack Armored Fish and Armored Men

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    With friends like these...

    Seriously, Turkey's been one disappointment after another. It's a liability in the war on ISIS. But what can be done?
     
  6. Yeekim

    Yeekim Warlord

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    This may well result in a severing of diplomatic relations for a while, but that's it.
    Neither is going to start a war over it.
     
  7. Tahuti

    Tahuti Writing Deity

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    Throw it out of the Anti-IS coalition and NATO. The Arab gulf states are also liabilities.
     
  8. Aleksey_aka_al

    Aleksey_aka_al Smiley

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    It is also worth mentioning (or has it been already?), that they warn planes which are in Syrian territory near the border.
     
  9. Thorgalaeg

    Thorgalaeg Warlord

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    That is the first thing i though when saw the map: "Does not compute".

    BTW guys. Just arrived from beach and saw a good bunch of full loaded container ships on the horizon anchored just in front of Rota base. Dont know if it is coincidence but at the start of the Second Gulf war i saw the same spectacle. Mericans are coming?
     
  10. Daw

    Daw Chieftain

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    Is so then the whole play was written long ago for us to watch now. Container ships aren't the fastest swimmers, are they?
     
  11. Thorgalaeg

    Thorgalaeg Warlord

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    Well, the situation has been scalating since several weeks ago. Or maybe it is something completely unrelated. Anyway modern cargo ships are surprisingly fast. Most can easily reach 20 knots fully loaded.
     
  12. HAND

    HAND Armchair Philosopher

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    Turkey needs to be treated with extreme suspicion. It is apparently trying to force NATO's hand and possibly create a confrontation with Russia.

    Even if the Russian jet did briefly enter Turkish airspace, judging by the meandering border it certainly should not have been treated as a hostile act towards Turkey.

    The Turks refused to help the Kurds against Islamic State at Kobani last year, only US air power prevented a complete defeat of the Kurds. Turkey blackmailed the EU into fast-tracking their entry into the European Union by allowing the millions of migrants/refugees to stream in Europe knowing it would force the EU's hand on the matter.

    Erdogan simply cannot be trusted by the West in my opinion.

    Edit: Here's a good article on the Erdogan/Turkey/IS situation:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...y-cut-islamic-state-supply-lines-erdogan-isis
     
  13. Daw

    Daw Chieftain

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    Umm... :mischief: this by that... err... :crazyeye: 37 km/h, right? Yeah, fast as rockets.
     
  14. Thorgalaeg

    Thorgalaeg Warlord

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    It is a ship not a rocket. That means it can cross the atlantic in 5-6 days. Big warships are not much faster in fact. 30-35 knots.
     
  15. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    lolwut

    Kurds? Perhaps you've heard of?

    Over the past few days several warnings were issued. As there were with the now shot down plane. Russia decided to ignore and this is the result. It's not Turkey who should contact Russia, but Russia Turkey. Which again it did not. Instead it points a finger to Turkey for daring to respond to airspace violations.

    (By the way, air space can no more be 'sealed' than borders can.)
     
  16. r16

    r16 not deity

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    my laptop continues to bleed .

    the New Turkey is a schoolyard bully . Waits in ambush , for an "empty" moment of yours , that one second or two when you are not paying attention . Checks the back to see all the buddies are there in case it goes wrong and slaps you in the face . Then declares you are still a friend . This is the catch , if there is a fight right there and right then , the bully will not be alone ; but you might catch him alone , somewhere , sometime ... It's almost always heart rending to watch the bully discovering he's alone , somewhere , sometime ... When the bully is the New Turkey , then the buddy becomes this Vice Chief of Staff of US who came here , suddenly , out of the blue .

    this is all the encouragement the ever glorious Turkish Military needs . The venue ? Lavrov to come here with good stuff , good contracts to benefit both sides . Your mistake , your offers prove you are after money ; hence you can be induced to give up Syria . Ankara indeed wants calm , this is the cool thing they have seen from the foreigners who conduct "crisis" diplomacy , the exact thing Ankara wants to employ in its on and off campaign for ruling the Middle East . ı have so limited options when it comes to watching satellite TV , Al Crusading the only channel with "foreign" origin when it comes to news and its journalist in Moscow , Rory something is just about to fall of his chair mocking the loss of the Fencer . While all the commentators on Turkish TVs are so solemn . Party TV actually suggesting "Channels of Communications" must be and are opened . The answer seems to be a solid "F___ you!" but do not allow me to put words in the mouth of the Russian Foreign Ministry . Oh , there are even Russians on the Voice of Russia that it can only be a bark instead of bite ... This despite all the faces of all other Al Crusading anchors falling .

    because the shooting down a Russian plane should have been a signal for immediate Russian evacuation , at least soul searching . Jihadi speakers on Turkish TVs already declare one loss will decide the outcome of the war ; they have already taken the "Red Mountain" back . This was to be a pivotal battle or something with Russians on social media expecting the 250 Jihadis coming in from Turkey with heavy weaponry to be the target , on Monday ... Of course will be denied , some Turkoman freedom warrior , with 20 centimeters of beard was on TV on Monday night , asking for not bread but weapons . After one other saying that they had TOWs from Turkey .

    so , the Russians violate Turkish Airspace ? If there had been a storm to deny flying , anything around Moscow would be considered a threat ...

    What , r16's posts differ ? From day to day ? Of course , not ... And a stab in the back ? As Putin says ? When you interjected yourself in the Middle East around 2011 , you should have known Barack spineless jerk Hussein , while spineless , is amoral as any . And then , even then he delegated the destruction of the Middle East to his lessers . You should have known , if committed to fight , you would have to fight for real . You know the people , you have been busy propping up their Counter-revolution . Maybe you were misled by their lack of character ? Or maybe that the wondrous fake economy of the country was smoothly running by a mere 0.5 to 1.5 Billion dollars a month worth of Qatari money laundering and you could buy friendship with better offers ? But you should have known all the smarties grew up with conditioning that Arabian petrodollar trumps all . They are adaptable that's true , but their path is following the robes of Arab sheiks if down . If up , they want some Arabian subjects to lord over , so that they can match all those Arab sheiks in robes . Ups and downs are cyclical , one must say ; after goaded on and on by those sheiks they have found heart in Lavrov coming ... You should have known the Victorian imperialism is running rampant in Turkey , all of us who are not traitors know we are meant to rule the world . We were born to do it . Even your assets , you tell them how essential the Turkish Republic is to the world , and they all nod the head in solemn agreement . And come back here , all laughs and more laughs . You have all those racist stories on how Arabs understand only from force , you should have expected that the New Turkey -the Arab wannabe- would strike as soon as you were seen to have that "empty" moment . ı am not to say that you should fight or not ... If not , out quick ; we all know the Jihadists and stuff , the whole lot of "they" , the supporting states included , are so after us . So that we shall see whether there's something up there or not ...
     

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