Tactics and Strategy T130-T150

[Sommerswerd]

Wow this is waaaay overdue.

So NEways the Unis have all been slaved including in Shymkent and Haz is building a Harbor?...So now I think we can drop the pretense of Democracy and just start doing whatever we want...

In that spirit, I changed the build in Taraz to a forge. There is already plenty of military there and we need to get culture a culture building there for border pushback... we are not taking Zero anytuime soon letz face it.

I also change Aktau to a temple and started 2 Priest specialists, once the temple is finished we can run three, to start getting our Holy buildings and holy $$$.

I think that maybe we have reached the point where we should appoint some city governors/dictators. Each of us can take a city and have total say over what that city produces/ and total say over units that city makes. We should also just take turns with tech choice... Smoke can choose next then Cavscout and so on...

 

[Indiansmoke]

I don't think we should even post whatwe are thinking of doing anymore...lets just leave it as a surprise.

 

[damnrunner]

I don't think we should even post whatwe are thinking of doing anymore...lets just leave it as a surprise.

That would throw off the Sancta spies in our forum! Genius!

 

[damnrunner]

This is getting out of hand. If folks don’t want to play a demo game they should leave and play MP games on their own. Preferably people won’t leave – but if people can’t play as a team they should not be here.

I think we all need to get on the same page regarding what our cities are doing over the next 10 -15 turns. This should reduce confusion as we go forward. Please update and edit this rough draft.

Haz – start Oxford now, then harbor, then units.
Pav – units
Aktau – we need further discussion on this
Osk – units
Shymkent – we need further discussion on this
Iron city – units, whip overflow into Moai
Taraz – we need further discussion on this
Corn city - granary, forge, barracks, units
Fish city – granary, forge, lighthouse, ships
Whale city – granary, forge, lighthouse, barracks, units

Other points to discuss
-diplo – war plans with MS and Cav?
-Heroic Epic, it was stated earlier that we can build HE now. Do we and if so where?
-when to switch to Theo? Turn after we finish Oxford, as soon as our 3 new cities have finished whipping basic infrastructure, something else?

 

[donsig]

I thought our focus was to remain in organized religion to get Oxford and some basic infrastructure then switch to theocracy and produce Sommer's Army. So, will we have most of the basic infrastructure in place by the time Oxford is built?

Yes, we want Heroic Epic somewhere. Which city (besides Haz) will be our best unit producer? That may be our best candidate for the Heroic Epic.

 

[donsig]

Not sure how I did a double post.

 

[damnrunner]

My thought would be to put the HE in the Iron city. Of course then we have to wait to build it until after the Moai. So it would be a while until it comes online. But long term I think that will be the best choice.

Taraz is another possible location, but again it is more long term. Once Zero is gone the city can be a good production city - but that might be a longish wait.

For a faster benefit Osk and the new corn city are options.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Baikonur (Whale city) should make a market not a barracks.
Shymkent should build a market, then a grocer.
Aktau should build a temple /is building a temple (unless there's a Smokey suprise)
Petro (fish city) should also get a market and grocer after the lighthouse. Ships are useless... even if we attack, it seems that we will probably only have one battle group and that will be focused on the valley to aid Cavalieros.
Taraz needs a forge. Every city needs a forge. The build order is Granary, forge, etc. Taraz must build forge, otherwise it's 20 turns for a Longbow... that means GG.
Kyzy (Corn city) should make units I agree w/ Damnrunner on that.
Atrayau (Iron city) should get HE I agree w/ Damnrunner on that as well.

Seems like "Sommer's Army" is on hold anyway, unitl Cavalieros give us the go-ahead on whether we are attacking with Cannons, Rifles, knights, galleons, whatever... Maybe we should just wait until Bombers ... We really waited too long to start army IMO... I think we are better off just turtling now. I still don't think Cavalieros are sending any army... but whatever.

Also, If it's "Sommer's Army" does that mean Sommers get to command it?

 

[damnrunner]

I think we can skip the markets and grocers. If things change and we stop getting $ from MS/Cav then yes we need them. But right now we are at 100% science and the gold multiplier will be of marginal use. If Shym is near its happy cap then a market might be useful. But I do not think that is the case. If we do need to increase gold output - it would be better to tech banking and then build banks - that is more efficient for gold output.

I think we do want to build ships. It gives us a credible naval threat to Sancta and forces them to divert units to the coast. It also can deter/counter Sancta's navy later on. Also ships we build now can be upgraded later. And we will need a navy at some point.

I take it Sommers wants Aktua to start focusing on GP. My tentative vote is to keep our original plan of focus on knights (but I could be persuaded by good arguments).

Slaving a forge in Taraz would make sense.

 

[Sommerswerd]

1. Right now, we are not teching at 100%. We are teching at zero when MS is giving Cav gold. One civ teching while the others build gold is what SANCTA is doing. Since we are doing the same, they are catching up. If we build more gold in the 0% turns we will need less help to upgrade/tech.

2. The sooner we get Holy cities, the sooner we can start teching at 100% WITHOUT gold from MS. Then MS Cav and Kaz can all tech at 100% and alliance techs faster overall. We can spread religion to other cities. 3 religions means 27 gold for Our cities alone... If we spread to all Cavalieros/MS cities we can run at 100% without MS. That means Cavaleros can get all MS gold and tech 100% simultaneously.

It will take too long to build the ships we need (to be a credible naval threat) from the naval cities we have. Bainokur is nowhere near ships, Aktau needs to grow for specialists maybe even build Great prophet wonders like Paya, Sangkore or even Chitzen Itza. Atryau needs Moai and the HE, and Petro needs a whole bunch of basic buildings. We cant use Haz to build the navy, we need it for so many other things.

 

[Indiansmoke]

sorry guys I cannot spend any more energy on this and it is really getting on my head so I leave you free to play your democracy game like it is meant to be played....good luck

 

[damnrunner]

Indian that is a huge shame. I very much respect your opinion and have learned a lot from you in this game. I think if we were really playing a Democracy game as it should be we would be going with your advice about 80% of the time.

Sommers - do you plan on taking input from anyone - or are you just going to log on do your own thing? No one on the team has agreed with you on your intent of not slaving any cities. But if you are becoming the defacto turn player will you take that advice?

 

[damnrunner]

Last turn

Also why the missionary in Osk? Why not in a city that does not have barracks such as Shymkent? Then Osk could build a mil unit. Overall that would be more efficient.

Aktau - I think most on the team do not want to start converting this to a gp farm yet. But even if we did that city can build fastest by using the whip. Switching to the plains farm was a bad call. A better tactic is to let the city grow (work grass farms) then do a 2 pop whip on the temple and have overflow go into the knight. The city has huge food surplus and will regrow quickly. That will allow the city to run 3 priest faster. Whipping should also be used to speed along the NE.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I did not take any actions that someone was against as far as I know... Just tell me what cities/buildings units you want to slave and I will do it... Also Cavscout is perfectly capable of playing turns as well.

I set the missionary in Oskemen because it has Taoism and we need to spread all our religions to all our cities, and start getting our Holy buildings. The other city with Taoism is Aktau, but Aktau is building a Temple for the Great Prophet points. It has to finish it in 10 turns or less because then the Knight that is partially built will start to decay s

Shymkent does not have Taoism, just Confu. And anyway Shymkent is building a barracks right now. The Production in Shymkent is very high (3 turns for a Xbow IIRC). It would be nice to be able to pump out a couple of military units there as well.

Aktau is at the happy cap. A temple there will give one more happy face (and give one angry face time to go away, so we can whip again if you really want. Without the plains farm it will take Aktau past the point of decay for the knight. However, if you are not convinced, and you feel really strongly about it, I will just go ahead and switch Aktau to max food and just whip the temple.

Like I have said many times. I am all about maximum team participation... To me, playing as a team and having fun is far more important than making so-called "optimal" decisions. So tell me what you want done... Any time I play a turn I will try to do what people suggest... .

Where do you want to put the NE? What about some religious Wonders in Aktau to pack on the Prophet Points?

 

[damnrunner]

Taoist missionary? I assumed you were building a Confu one to spread religion to the new whale city. First, we should not be worrying about spreading a 2nd religion right now. Our 1st GProphet is a ways off and we only see a gain from a spreading a 2nd religion after we get our 2nd GProphet - a very long ways off. Second, if you are building missionaries – Judaism makes more sense than Taoism. We have double holy city in Pav – that way we can build commerce multipliers in one city that benefits both shrines at the same time.

Building wonders in Aktua will take a very long time and won’t speed things up much anyway. Building NE makes sense for Aktua – but I would still prefer if we built some knights 1st in the city.

Osk has a barracks and would be better off with units in the future. Shym can build units as well (and should) but will 1st need a barracks. Shym can also build spys which we also need a few more of.

As to what to build in other cities – I indicated my suggestions of what to build in each city and listed several cities where I said discussion was needed. I’d like to hear your and other people’s views. I think it makes more sense to talk about stuff 1st rather than just do things and talk about it after the fact.

 

[cav scout]

I agree with Damnrunner on all points.

 

[donsig]

Yeah, I'd stay away from markets and grocers, too, except where we'd get a large benefit from one. By infrastructure I thought we meant mostly barracks and the libraries and universities needed for Oxford. We don't necessarily have to wait for Team Cav to start building our army up.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Changed Oskemen from missionary to Knight as Damnrunner suggested.

2 pop whip temple in Aktau. Switched tiles to max food as Damnrunner suggested. Aktau regrows in 1 turn. Overflow to Knight as Damnrunner suggested.

Shymkent is building Barracks as Damrunner suggested

 

[damnrunner]

The iron city will be able to slave Moais fairly soon. Do we slave it or let it complete normally?

My inclination is that the most efficient approach is to slave Moais while we still have the Monotheism bonus and let the overflow go into the HE. Then I think we build catapults and use the occasional 2 pop whip as overflow into the HE. Then when the HE is close we do the final whip and finish it.

Letting the city grow is the other option and with Moais the city will generate good production. But as the HE is 200 hammers it will still take a while to complete. My hunch is that it is faster and more efficient to slave the HE and afterwards let the city grow as we build units with the 100% multiplier.


A similar issue is coming up at Aktau. We are running specialists there now and building a knight. We want to build the NE (250 hammers IIRC) but the city has very low production and also is a useful place to build units. I propose that we slave knights and have overflow go into the NE. Any thoughts on the timing on this would best work? Or any other ideas?

 

[Sommerswerd]

FYI Slaving the knight will create 1 unhappy face for 91 turns IIRC. When Aktau grows again, it will be at the happy cap again. Building the temple raised the happy cap by one, but slaving the temple created a 80+ turn unhappy face.