Tactics and Strategy T130-T150
- Thread starter Sommerswerd
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damnrunner
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I did not realize we would grow back in time. I support the 3 pop whip. My concern was that we would not be able to grow back opp fast enough to work the soon-to-be improved tiles.
Spy
We have a new Spy on his way to Taraz. What should he be doing? I would take a peek into the land near Zero, to make sure SANCTA (or Saturn) is not stacking an invasion force just outside of our view, and check the defense in TKY, then withdraw him to Taraz for espy defense until we are ready to attack so we don't lose him.
Workers
We need to connect the Corn and the Deer near Aktau, both are unconnected. We also need windmills and farms near Pavlodar as its growth has slowed. I would start this right away.
Worker sent to SW plainshill near Pavlodar is better off building a Windmill to maximize the number of tiles we can work there. For Pavlodar, I would farm Remaining plains and remaining hills would be windmilled. I would also start this right away.
Shymkent grows next turn and can work a grasshill mine or a plains farm. Also, The desertriverhill near Shymkent should be windmilled, because it will get a commerce bonus (from financial trait). I would do this later.
Worker 1W of Kzylorda is done roading Corn, what should he do next?
We also need windmills and/or mines near Kyzylorda to maximize food/tile usage, I would start this right away.
Workers building Cottages near Taraz are done. What should they do next? I would cottage the rest of the grassriver tiles, windmill the remaining grassriverhill and mine the other hills. However, I would not prioritize developing Taraz any further since it has to grow back into its improvements.
Atyrau is at pop 6 and grws in 2 turns. It is working 1 (unimproved) water tile (but since Atyrau has a Lighthouse, I guess you can say that all its Water tile are sort of improved). There are no other (non-water) improved tiles for Atyrau to work when it expands.
I would send the next available worker to farm the grassland E of Atyrau to maximize growth. Each water tile we work will neither speed, nor slow growth (they all make 2
, except the fish), so the only way to get to all our water tiles as quiclkly as possible is to maximize the land based . possible.
We have a new Spy on his way to Taraz. What should he be doing? I would take a peek into the land near Zero, to make sure SANCTA (or Saturn) is not stacking an invasion force just outside of our view, and check the defense in TKY, then withdraw him to Taraz for espy defense until we are ready to attack so we don't lose him.
Workers
We need to connect the Corn and the Deer near Aktau, both are unconnected. We also need windmills and farms near Pavlodar as its growth has slowed. I would start this right away.
Worker sent to SW plainshill near Pavlodar is better off building a Windmill to maximize the number of tiles we can work there. For Pavlodar, I would farm Remaining plains and remaining hills would be windmilled. I would also start this right away.
Shymkent grows next turn and can work a grasshill mine or a plains farm. Also, The desertriverhill near Shymkent should be windmilled, because it will get a commerce bonus (from financial trait). I would do this later.
Worker 1W of Kzylorda is done roading Corn, what should he do next?
We also need windmills and/or mines near Kyzylorda to maximize food/tile usage, I would start this right away.
Workers building Cottages near Taraz are done. What should they do next? I would cottage the rest of the grassriver tiles, windmill the remaining grassriverhill and mine the other hills. However, I would not prioritize developing Taraz any further since it has to grow back into its improvements.
Atyrau is at pop 6 and grws in 2 turns. It is working 1 (unimproved) water tile (but since Atyrau has a Lighthouse, I guess you can say that all its Water tile are sort of improved). There are no other (non-water) improved tiles for Atyrau to work when it expands.
I would send the next available worker to farm the grassland E of Atyrau to maximize growth. Each water tile we work will neither speed, nor slow growth (they all make 2
, except the fish), so the only way to get to all our water tiles as quiclkly as possible is to maximize the land based . possible.damnrunner
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Oxford in 2 turns – excellent! Unless I am missing something, we should also get Econ in 2 more turns (my understanding is that Econ is 1400 beakers and that we tech close to 500bpt). So in 3 turns do we switch to Free Market and Theo? I think that makes the most sense.
damnrunner
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Just a quick thought on the GM (if we get it of course).
Let me know if this is feasible.
Next turn
-whip the fish city to clear out its production que.
Following turn
-We get Econ and a GM at Haz
-We get oxford
-we finish whatever was being built in the fish city
-Move the GM to the fish city.
-change civics
-gift fish city, its LB, and the GM to Team Cav
Following turn
-Cav moves Gm to Haz for trade mission.
-Cav gifts fish city and its LB back
Let me know if this is feasible.
Next turn
-whip the fish city to clear out its production que.
Following turn
-We get Econ and a GM at Haz
-We get oxford
-we finish whatever was being built in the fish city
-Move the GM to the fish city.
-change civics
-gift fish city, its LB, and the GM to Team Cav
Following turn
-Cav moves Gm to Haz for trade mission.
-Cav gifts fish city and its LB back
damnrunner
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I'd rather transport it to Cav as well. But getting $ faster in order to upgrade catapults to cannons would be useful.
I am nervous that Sancta might attack us once they realize what we are doping. And if we don't have the money to upgrade our catapults we will be fairly vulnerable.
I am nervous that Sancta might attack us once they realize what we are doping. And if we don't have the money to upgrade our catapults we will be fairly vulnerable.
cav scout
The Continuum
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just logged in to check the game. Here is a bunch of screens for you Damnrunner. Based on the troops we have and what we have in the pipeline i'm not too optimistic about attacking anytime soon. We have alot of muskets on the way but these are horrible for attacking and much better to save up for redcoats.
Oh and we could probably improve our micro a bit...
Petro is overdue for a whip. A whip now would at least free up the shared mine so that Pav could work it (so Pav doesnt have to work an unimproved tile like it is now). We should whip the temple in Aktau. Atyrau is also ready to whip Maoi if we want to. For Kyzl we should mine the grass hills and windmill the plains ones.
Oh and we could probably improve our micro a bit...
Petro is overdue for a whip. A whip now would at least free up the shared mine so that Pav could work it (so Pav doesnt have to work an unimproved tile like it is now). We should whip the temple in Aktau. Atyrau is also ready to whip Maoi if we want to. For Kyzl we should mine the grass hills and windmill the plains ones.
I agree that we are not really ready to attack SANCTA anytime soon.
I would not whip Petro down to size 1. Petro needs at least pop 2 to work the mine and the fish. Without the mine, Petro is useless. We shouldn't have spent all this time to build a lighthouse if we are going to just whip the population down to 1 as soon as we are ready to start working another water tile.
Also, I have been trying to check every city anytime I take a turn, for available whips (forge whip in Taraz, Moai whip etc.), and IIRC the whip in Petro was not available last turn, so I wouldn't say Petro is "long overdue." Same thing for the Aktau temple, we just spread Islam, so the temple just became available.
Working that unimproved plain in Pavlodar speeds growth to 8 turns (from 12 or 16 IIRC), makes a
. Using the citizen to get more (by working a mine, for example, does not get us the unit built any faster, I checked. And anyway, if we want Pavlodar to get more we can just start running an engineer, instead of killing off Petro's people. Plus, there is a worker nearby to windmill/farm (I would windmill), so an improved tile will be available soon... we dont need to kill our Petro citizens to free up a mine. I would also not whip Aktau's temple. The point of the temple is to be able to add an additional Priest. All Aktau's citizens are either priests, or making the food we need to run priests. If we whip the citizens away, there will be no one left to make into our 4th priest specialist, which would defeat the whole point of getting the temple. We have 4 holy buildings to build. We should try to get/keep as many priests running as possible.
Thanks for posting all the screenies
! It takes a long time to do.
damnrunner
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I’ll be out in the woods for the long weekend. So can’t realy argue my views. But in short. I think we should shoot for an earlier attack. Our greatest advantage will come when we have cannons an Sancta only has muskets. I think razing Zero and taking TKY and Dragon Tears are very reasonable objectives.
Thanks for the screen shots. btw
Thanks for the screen shots. btw
cav scout
The Continuum
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@Sommers- Ok saying Petro is overdue for a whip was wrong on my part. But if we don't whip it now we are going to be working a 1 sea tile while we wait for the lighthouse- kind of a waste... Regarding Aktau- we can't wait 8 turns for the temple to finish and then another 6 for the cat.
sea tile while we wait for the lighthouse- kind of a waste... Regarding Aktau- we can't wait 8 turns for the temple to finish and then another 6 for the cat.
OK, but I dont think we should whip either city at least until they grow one pop point.
Petro grows in 1 turn and will then be working 1 unimproved tile as you pointed out. It is not working an unimproved tile now. If we wait for the city to grow to pop 3, then we will at least be whipping away an unimproved tile rather than an improved one.
Assuming that we stay running 3 priests in Aktau:
If we do a 2 pop whip in Aktau, it goes down to pop 5 which means it needs 30 to grow to pop 6. Aktau has 19 stored now. At pop 5, Aktau will require 10 . With 3 priests running, we can produce a maximum of 12, so 2 surplus per turn.
With only a 2 surplus it will take 6 turns to grow back to pop 6. During those 6 turns, we will not be able to run 4 priests, because we will not be making enough food to spare either the 6 corn, or the 4 sheep (the only tiles that we will be working after a 2 pop whip). So we will be whipping a temple that we cannot use.
The only way to grow faster, would be to run less priests. That is obviously not the way to go, because we should not whip a temple to work less priests. The point of getting a temple is to run more priests, not less.
Finally, the GProphet in Aktau (19 turns) is Only 5 turns ahead of the next Gsci in Haz (24 turns), and Haz already poduces GP points faster (20 to 19 in Haz's favor). We cannot slow Haz's Gsci, because the points come automatically from the Wonders. So if we give up Gprophet points in Aktau, Hazrate will catch up and produce the Gsci first, defeating the whole point of running priests. Also, the GP point requirement will increase again, further delaying our Prophet.
I would not whip a the temple until we could do so without sacrificing any priests, and still be able to run 4 priests. A 1 pop whip at pop 8 for example, would do it and this may be available when Aktau reaches pop 8 (3 turns).
At any rate, I will be out of town this weekend, so I probably won't be able to take the next few turns. I will finish our current turn, and leave the rest up to you Cavscout. Just remember that HUSch is sending 75GPT automatically, but we have to request an additional 40-50 Gold EVERY TURN via PM / in-game request to stay at 100% tech.
Petro grows in 1 turn and will then be working 1 unimproved tile as you pointed out. It is not working an unimproved tile now. If we wait for the city to grow to pop 3, then we will at least be whipping away an unimproved tile rather than an improved one.
Assuming that we stay running 3 priests in Aktau:
If we do a 2 pop whip in Aktau, it goes down to pop 5 which means it needs 30
to grow to pop 6. Aktau has 19 stored now. At pop 5, Aktau will require 10 . With 3 priests running, we can produce a maximum of 12, so 2 surplus per turn. With only a 2
surplus it will take 6 turns to grow back to pop 6. During those 6 turns, we will not be able to run 4 priests, because we will not be making enough food to spare either the 6 corn, or the 4 sheep (the only tiles that we will be working after a 2 pop whip). So we will be whipping a temple that we cannot use.The only way to grow faster, would be to run less priests. That is obviously not the way to go, because we should not whip a temple to work less priests. The point of getting a temple is to run more priests, not less.
Finally, the GProphet in Aktau (19 turns) is Only 5 turns ahead of the next Gsci in Haz (24 turns), and Haz already poduces GP points faster (20 to 19 in Haz's favor). We cannot slow Haz's Gsci, because the points come automatically from the Wonders. So if we give up Gprophet points in Aktau, Hazrate will catch up and produce the Gsci first, defeating the whole point of running priests. Also, the GP point requirement will increase again, further delaying our Prophet.
I would not whip a the temple until we could do so without sacrificing any priests, and still be able to run 4 priests. A 1 pop whip at pop 8 for example, would do it and this may be available when Aktau reaches pop 8 (3 turns).
At any rate, I will be out of town this weekend, so I probably won't be able to take the next few turns. I will finish our current turn, and leave the rest up to you Cavscout. Just remember that HUSch is sending 75GPT automatically, but we have to request an additional 40-50 Gold EVERY TURN via PM / in-game request to stay at 100% tech.
damnrunner
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Since we are on track to get a Great Prophet next in Aktau I don't think we should switch things up if it would result in missing the Prophet
damnrunner
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My understanding is that this next turn is going to be a busy one.
We get Econ and Oxford.
With the GM – either do the city switch thing I proposed – or move it towards the ship Cav sent our way.
We want to do any final slaving (for buildings) to make use of the Org Rel bonus.
We also need to switch our civics. Theo and Free Market is my preference. Others have mentioned keeping Org Rel, and also switching to Vassalage and Serfdom. I think keeping Org Rel is not really a good idea as we are not going to be building many more building for the time being. My rough estimate is that, going forward, at least 2/3rds of our cities will be building exclusively units so the Org Rel bonus is far less helpful.
Vassalage is useful, but the additional exp only allows our knights to access level 3 promotions. We are going to building primarily cannons and later on redcoats. Knights and Cavalry will be useful – but they will not make up the backbone of our army. By contrast, keeping Bureaucracy will greatly reduce the amount of time it take for us to tech Rifling. With Oxford the effect of the 50% commerce bonus from Bureaucracy is greatly magnified.
Serfdom – we are shifting away from making heavy use of slavery – but while at war slavery it is a great civic to have in case of an emergency. For example, a Sancta galleys show up off Aktau and we need to whip a LB for defense. Also the fact is we have a pretty small amount of land as it is and I think our works are making good progress with improvements.
Finally, we should switch production back to catapults in those cities that have catapults in their build ques. The idea is that we want to build all of these catapults on the turn we come out of anarchy. Then we can get steel from Cav and begin upgrading to cannons.
We get Econ and Oxford.
With the GM – either do the city switch thing I proposed – or move it towards the ship Cav sent our way.
We want to do any final slaving (for buildings) to make use of the Org Rel bonus.
We also need to switch our civics. Theo and Free Market is my preference. Others have mentioned keeping Org Rel, and also switching to Vassalage and Serfdom. I think keeping Org Rel is not really a good idea as we are not going to be building many more building for the time being. My rough estimate is that, going forward, at least 2/3rds of our cities will be building exclusively units so the Org Rel bonus is far less helpful.
Vassalage is useful, but the additional exp only allows our knights to access level 3 promotions. We are going to building primarily cannons and later on redcoats. Knights and Cavalry will be useful – but they will not make up the backbone of our army. By contrast, keeping Bureaucracy will greatly reduce the amount of time it take for us to tech Rifling. With Oxford the effect of the 50% commerce bonus from Bureaucracy is greatly magnified.
Serfdom – we are shifting away from making heavy use of slavery – but while at war slavery it is a great civic to have in case of an emergency. For example, a Sancta galleys show up off Aktau and we need to whip a LB for defense. Also the fact is we have a pretty small amount of land as it is and I think our works are making good progress with improvements.
Finally, we should switch production back to catapults in those cities that have catapults in their build ques. The idea is that we want to build all of these catapults on the turn we come out of anarchy. Then we can get steel from Cav and begin upgrading to cannons.
damnrunner
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As this will be a big turn we should not move forward until everyone has a chance to weigh in. I’d hate for team members to get angry about being left out of the decision making process.
guys, given that we have 2 civics to change at the very least, has anyone given thought to use the GM from econ for a golden age instead of a trade mission?
The golden age would get rid of 2 turns of anarchy in addition to the usual hammer/commerce bonus. It strikes me that if we want 1 golden age, this would be the time to do it... I don't think we are going to get many more GP in this game, and it seems reasonable to invest 1 in a golden age, especially if we weren't really planning to get a golden age under normal circumstances.
I don't know really what our GDP, production, and population growth is, so maybe someone can do a quick benefit/cost analysis of a trade mission versus a golden age?
The golden age would get rid of 2 turns of anarchy in addition to the usual hammer/commerce bonus. It strikes me that if we want 1 golden age, this would be the time to do it... I don't think we are going to get many more GP in this game, and it seems reasonable to invest 1 in a golden age, especially if we weren't really planning to get a golden age under normal circumstances.
I don't know really what our GDP, production, and population growth is, so maybe someone can do a quick benefit/cost analysis of a trade mission versus a golden age?
