I've written a detailed update, hopefully people can read and consider it before we play the next turn.
Tactics And Strategy: turns 0-50
- Thread starter Jimmy369
- Start date
I will prob start a new thread about this... At some point we might consider a reorganization of our Civ's government that is to say Each city (or group of cities) could have an elected (or appointed) governor, who is responsible for making decisions about what that city would produce, work etc.(obviously the turnplayers would execute the commands), maybe we could even set one city "free" as a test city, to be free to produce whatever the governor decides and then decide in X turns if the system is working, or maybe make the production subject to a vote. I could go on and on about the numerous possibilities but I think you get the point...
I realize that our civ is so small at this point that it does not matter and will not matter for a long time. For now we are better off with an "oligarchy." Also, since I have never played a Democracy game, so I apologize if this topic has alredy been discussed by other players in other games / settled etc.
Are you sure what the losses are from not having hamlets/towns faster?
I Agree that we need to certify/verify the actions for each turn... unless of course ... we start choosing our nation's Generals, Governors, President, etc... Isnt DEMOCRACY fun?!!!
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
We found a horse west of Hazrate, I tentatively marked off the fourth city for getting the horses, a real steppe location. There are two grasslands we can farm, as well as two hills. I suggest to build on top of the horses themselves, and quickly produce chariots there, reducing the waste of worker time, allow instant connectivity to road grid and max out tile coverage.
We may even consider building this first as our third city, effectively postponing the tundra-location with the sheep. We can get out a first chariot to scout, then build a barracks to make better chariots there. I think we can do without archery now.
I am very for getting Writing right now, so we can get library for culture expansion. We may also decide to take an ad hoc vote for mysticism, as another option for culture expansion, but writing would get us a better Pavlodar.
We may even consider building this first as our third city, effectively postponing the tundra-location with the sheep. We can get out a first chariot to scout, then build a barracks to make better chariots there. I think we can do without archery now.
I am very for getting Writing right now, so we can get library for culture expansion. We may also decide to take an ad hoc vote for mysticism, as another option for culture expansion, but writing would get us a better Pavlodar.
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
Builds:
I think Hazrate should build a settler right after work boat, so we can settle the horses right away, and I also suggest that Pavlodar makes a prebuild of a warrior until it becomes size 2, then start producing library as soon as we get writing (if we go for that tech) or produce 2 workers (if we go for pottery).
I think Hazrate should build a settler right after work boat, so we can settle the horses right away, and I also suggest that Pavlodar makes a prebuild of a warrior until it becomes size 2, then start producing library as soon as we get writing (if we go for that tech) or produce 2 workers (if we go for pottery).
Indiansmoke
Deity
Next city should be by sheep, we have a second resource there and it will make a good city site with 2 food resources for intense whipping...4th city should be towards horses but propably south of horses (there might be river in range) and not where provolution marked...lets decide after we explore more...
I am tottaly against libraries for now...lets use monuments in new cities for culture and use our hammers for workers settlers and warriors...we need library in capital but not straight away now..expanding is far more important.
I am tottaly against libraries for now...lets use monuments in new cities for culture and use our hammers for workers settlers and warriors...we need library in capital but not straight away now..expanding is far more important.
I agree on both points. Really glad we have horses!! woohoo! And also great we can get sheep and deer in the small cross.
To quote myself in another thread:
myself said:
p.s. warrior 2 should go SW to the coast.
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
I am also fine with building things as we planned in order, with city 3 as city 3 and horses city as #4. I am also fine with going along with pottery right now.
However, the point remains, building on top of the horses has many advantages, as we can begin to build chariots right away, as well as having a better total tile-grid, as well as benefiting from a better shared tile overlap with the mines of Pavlodar. This saves the number of worker actions, gives us access to a few more tiles we want to have covered near the range, and is better for the overall grid plan.
However, the point remains, building on top of the horses has many advantages, as we can begin to build chariots right away, as well as having a better total tile-grid, as well as benefiting from a better shared tile overlap with the mines of Pavlodar. This saves the number of worker actions, gives us access to a few more tiles we want to have covered near the range, and is better for the overall grid plan.
donsig
Low level intermediary
I am not so sure we should continue with pottery since I do not see us being in a position to build cottages in four turns. The vote was very close between writing and pottery and with some more time we might have had a clearer vote result. Do we not have 24 hours to play our turn? Can we not also ask for an extension once in a while? Let's begin to take our time here especially when we are not clear on what we want to do.
Now that we have horses close by we can forget archery, right? Pottery will take 5 turns. Let's begin now to decide what tech we want next. It seems to me the choice will be between writing (for libraries) and mysticism (for monuments and maybe a try at an early religion). Writing will take about 10 turns, mysticism about 5. Any ideas how many turns for meditation or polytheism after that?
In general our two cities will be building units to explore and fog bust (a workboat, scouts, warriors) and workers and settlers in the next, say, 15 turns?
Now that we have horses close by we can forget archery, right? Pottery will take 5 turns. Let's begin now to decide what tech we want next. It seems to me the choice will be between writing (for libraries) and mysticism (for monuments and maybe a try at an early religion). Writing will take about 10 turns, mysticism about 5. Any ideas how many turns for meditation or polytheism after that?
In general our two cities will be building units to explore and fog bust (a workboat, scouts, warriors) and workers and settlers in the next, say, 15 turns?
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
donsig, why not put up a new poll, lasting 24 hours, with mysticism, pottery and writing as the main options?
Indiansmoke
Deity
If we go worker next from capital we should be in a position to build cottages.
However we could go mystisism and try for a religion as well..
writting seems pointless to me right now as we need workers, settlers and warriors
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
I think we need 2 settlers next from capital, and 2 workers from pavlodar after pop 2.
damnrunner
Deity
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2005
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Yes I am. For my reasoning I am assuming 100% science rate and that beakers and commerce are interchangeable. I am also ignoring the 25% science bonus from the library. I know this is not completely true but it makes the math easier.
Initially a river cottage and a scientist can each generate 3 commerce/beakers. In the time it takes to get a GS and build an academy (~10 turns) a cottage could grow once and produce 4 commerce.
Hence by working 2 cottages at the end of 10 turns we can produce 8 commerce with these 2 cottages.
By generating a GS 1st and building an academy we get a +50% bonus to science. By starting to work the 2 cottages at this point we generate 6 base commerce and 9 commerce after the academy is factored in.
Over time, both sets of cottages will continue to grow, but the 50% bonus will always be bigger than the incremental increases in growth.
This should prove my point that building an academy 1st is always better than building cottages 1st.
The academy of course also give a 50% bonus to all other science generated in a city which makes this an even more clear decision.
The only reason to tech pottery before writing is to build a granary before a library. I think getting an earlier academy is better but this issue can be debated. The cottage vs academy issue is pretty clear in my mind.
Indiansmoke
Deity
Getting an extra city instead of an academy this early is always better.....have you calculated that?
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
The city can be produced from capital.
damnrunner
Deity
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- Oct 19, 2005
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No I had not and I agree. We should build one more settler in our capitol before building a granary or a library. I suggest a library before a granary in the capitol.
My point is granary and cottages vs library and academy.
A granary and cottages does not get us a faster settler.
Thanks Damnrunner, I appreciate the logic of your breakdown. But aren't we also talking about the ability to build granaries in the other cities as well? Also, what about the fact that we can get the academy later? Surely you agree that we are better off having the towns AND the Academies? If we build the cottages first, we get to towns with academies faster, no?
I agree with the importance of granaries and cottages at this stage. I'm just not sure we have the workers to build cottages straight away and we will be building settlers and workers instead of granaries in our 2 cities. A library can be built quickly in the capital and we can build settlers whilst we run scientists for 9 turns.
I would rather run a scientist than work unimproved tiles.
If we switch to writing now it should be ready by the time the settler is complete. Pottery will then be ready by the time settler is at city site so we can build granary.
For those suggesting cottages, exactly where are they going to go? And who is going to build them in the next 10 turns? And who is going to build a granary?
I would rather run a scientist than work unimproved tiles.
If we switch to writing now it should be ready by the time the settler is complete. Pottery will then be ready by the time settler is at city site so we can build granary.
For those suggesting cottages, exactly where are they going to go? And who is going to build them in the next 10 turns? And who is going to build a granary?
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
I think the pottery supporters are going on autopilot. Cottages and granaries are popular because they feel habitually right, like the Oracle gambit.
Situational awareness is more important to me. Library and scientists and faster great people makes much more sense right now, as that is our only comparative advantage we can play out, considering that there is no room for utilizing pottery, and we are more than likely last in the race for hinduism and buddhism. With libraries and an academy, as well as using scientists, we have a very good chance on Code of Laws first, which we need to get to colonize the Darya River up to the pass, most likely a full 4 cities for the river alone.
Situational awareness is more important to me. Library and scientists and faster great people makes much more sense right now, as that is our only comparative advantage we can play out, considering that there is no room for utilizing pottery, and we are more than likely last in the race for hinduism and buddhism. With libraries and an academy, as well as using scientists, we have a very good chance on Code of Laws first, which we need to get to colonize the Darya River up to the pass, most likely a full 4 cities for the river alone.
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