Tactics and Strategy Turns 100-120

[Indiansmoke]

I changed bulding ques to libraries as it should be IMO...if you disagree lets discuss it.

Also made some worker moves.

remaining moves
spy where does it go?
worker at corn city make mine? or move to start cottage? Maybe mine IMO since he is atthe hill.

Also accepted cash and resource from MS

 

[Kaleb]

I was just suggesting we whip that Cat in Atyrau as it's already had hammers in it and we don't want them to deteriorate.

I'm fine with libraries. I made some notes about worker moves in game - where you happy with those suggestions? Oh and Shymkent should swap to work the older of the shared cottage.

 

[Kaleb]

Oh and are we definitely going for compass now then?

 

[Indiansmoke]

Yea compass, we decided with Cav to have a go at astronomy from liberialism which would be awesome.

Cat hammers will not deteriorate for 10 turns, we will have both library and uni in iron city by then.

Cottage is irelevant which city works it for this turn anyway.

And also we should whip barracks in front city.

 

[Sommerswerd]

guys we don't need more catapults! We are going for cannons remember?

Yes we do. When our ceasefire with SANCTA ends, they will possibly attack us. They voted to elimminate us after the ceasefire remember?

Also, Don't forget we can upgrade Catapults to Cannons.

I changed bulding ques to libraries as it should be IMO...if you disagree lets discuss it.

I disagree. We NEED catapults BEFORE we start libraries. I did not change the ques, because I am presently outvoted 2:1, but I think we should be building military ONLY, at least until the ceasefire ends. We need to see if SANCTA attacks us... AND be prepared for it if they do.

Cat hammers will not deteriorate for 10 turns, we will have both library and uni in iron city by then.

We should get catapults first, I say go ahead and finish the Catapult first. I would also like to reiterate that we should be growing not slaving, whenever possible. We only have 9 cities. We need to let them get a large as they can.

I support everything else Smoke mentioned, as I think the Navigation beeline is part of the whole military deal worked out with Cavalieros... correct?

 

[Indiansmoke]

If Sancta are about to attack we need units no catapults anyway, we have 4-5 catas already at the front.

Also we are no2 in power and close to no1, so there is no way Sancta hav 20 units stack,but they might be building one.

In any case we need to tke risks if we are going to do something in this game, we cannot be building slaving units non stop.

We must take a few turns of units an make libraries and unis.

 

[Kaleb]

that Cat hasn't been worked for a while, so it's less than 10 turns. we may as well whip it now for the overflow and to do a 2 pop whip

we have enough Cats, we need units to kill the units they weaken anyway.

 

[Sommerswerd]

OK fine then switch to C'bows, L'bows, Maces, whatever... but NOT libraries. Smoke even says if SANCTA is attacking soon we need UNITS... Fine, then build units, not libraries.

I would prefer we had at least 10 catapults TBH. Why? Because we can use 10 catapults to suprise SANCTA. They will not be ready for that many catapults/collateral damage. We can kill their stack and still have enough catapults to IMMEDIATELY siege and capture Zero or TKY before they recover.

With only 4 or 5 catapults, we will only be able to repel their 1st attack, but not counter attack, and certainly not invade.

Also, Cavalieros claim to have NO army whatsoever. If SANCTA attacks them instead of us, we need to be able to invade SANCTA, or Cavalieros will be ransacked fairly quickly.

So, in conclusion, more units, more catapults, no libraries for now.

 

[donsig]

If we're close to being number one in power then we should spend some time on libraries.

 

[Indiansmoke]

I might not be able to make it in time to complete the turn.

Can someone log in and do the following?

1. move spy...move on the roaded tile next to TKY. Spies have commando and use enemy roads so we must keep them on the enemy roads.
2. Start a mine with the worker that is on the hill.
3. Slave barracks for 1 pop in front city

I don't think there is anything else to do

 

[Indiansmoke]

Another thing discussed in the chat with Cav, for those that were not present or did not read the long chat loggs, is that the plan is to addopt theocracy in a about 15 turns, so we start pumping out promoted units.

So we can use these 15 turns to slave our libraries and unis with organized and then switch to theology to churn out units.

This makes perfect sense and it is a good strategy IMO.

 

[donsig]

Yes, if we're switching from organized religion to theocracy then we really want to get those buildings done and then start making units.

 

[Indiansmoke]

Liberialism race will be mighty close, Sancta have teched Edu and have philosophy so they can start liberialism next turn.

Can need 3 turns to get it (2 turns after this one). So if Sancta get it in 2 we will lose it.

 

[damnrunner]

I am a bit unclear what we are building right now and what our plans for the next 5-10 turns are. I don’t think Sancta can hit us with anything we can’t handle right at this moment. But we do need to continue adding to our defensive forces in the valley. I think building libraries/universities makes sense in some of our cities, but doing so in every city might not be the wisest course right now.

On the military side some additional Xbows (they have several well promoted axes) and a pikeman or two would be useful. A few hilltop promoted LBs could also be helpful to deny Sancta access to certain strategic hills. Of course they could kill the LB’s fairly easily. But they would lose 1-2 maces/elephants per LB which would be a worthwhile investment

I am also very concerned about a potential cultural border pop at Zero.

Another thought also may be to let Sancta see our galley (maybe sail it into the fish city). Fear of a naval attack will divert units from the front line cities.

Some thoughts on what our cities are making. Please update and make suggestions.
Haz – lighthouse, uni, units
Pav – barracks, units
Actau – units
Osk - units
Shmy – library, uni,
Atry – whip units, overflow to Moai (whipping a library/uni might make sense here. As could a courthouse).
Frontline City – barracks, cultural buildings, courthouse, units. I think all would make good sense.
New corn city – granary, forge, barracks, units
New Fish city – granary, ships
New gold city - granary, forge

 

[damnrunner]

On the liberalism race. Is there any way to help speed up Team Cav or slow down Sancta. We may want to raise the concern with Team Cav to brainstorm any possible ideas. Also just to make sure but MS does not have trade routes with Sancta do they.

 

[Sommerswerd]

What turn is it anyway? 127? 128?

If we are attacking SANCTA with Cavalieros in 30 turns,
1. What cities are we planning to capture?
2. How many units are we planning on attacking with?
3. What type of units / how many of each unit type?
4. How long will it take to build each unit?

 

[Sommerswerd]

I say:
1. We should try to take TKY, Zero Dragon Tears, and Orchid Oolong... Then re-asses.
2. We should have a SoD with at least 20 units, and a naval distraction invasion at Phoenix with at least 10 units
3. The SoD should have at least 10 siege units (at least 5 cannons), and 10 attack units at least (5Redcoats). The Naval team should have 4 Knights, 1 mace, 3 elephant and 2 catapults (for siege/pillage/harrass). We will also need 5 galleys (to drop the naval team off) and at least 5 Caravels to defend the galleys. That's 40 units total.
4. If we figure an average of 8 turns (some cities will take less, some cities will take longer) per unit/ per city, starting now, our 9 cities can build 27 units in 24 turns, leaving 6 turns to slave/ draft the remaining units we need.

In the meantime, we should use the workers to mine, mine, mine like the seven dwarves, to increase our output. We should also grow the cities to use the mines.

 

[cav scout]

I'm with the building crew. In the next 15 turns we want to get the most out of our organized religion civic and get the infrastructure we need. Damnrunner's suggestions are good.

 

[damnrunner]

Battle Plans

Sommers is right – we should make some general plans regarding what sort of force we want to attack with. That will help inform our building choices.

I think it is a bit premature to set goals on how many cites to capture. We will need to explore a bit more with our spy to get a better sense of the geography. Razing Zero and capturing TKY and Dragon Tears are probably givens though.

I am also a bit wary about our plans to spilt our forces. We are very gung-ho to attack by land and also land an invasion force by sea. But I think it may be better to concentrate our forces in the valley. The main point of the naval attack is to open a 2nd front and pull Sancta units away from the valley. While we may capture some cities with a surprise naval attack, if we want to capture and hold them we will need to fight our way to them by land as well. Of course Sancta will expect a naval attack, and I doubt we will give them much of a surprise. Either way, the threat of a naval attack will pull units away from the valley just as effectively as actually attacking. Of course, if we see a particularly good opportunity we can quickly move knights from the valley to ships along the coast.

Another gambit to open a second front could involve closing and then reopening borders with Team Cav. This could teleport a strike force of Cav units from our territory over the mountains to the nearest uncontrolled territory. It is fairly cheap, but the units would be in a great position to cut resupply roads and capture/raze weakly defended cities.

On the topic of to cheap moves – is there any possibility to play dirty tricks by temporarily gifting cities to Team Cav. For example if both us and Team Cav were running nationalism – could we draft 2 units per turn by gifting a city back and forth.

 

[damnrunner]

As to what to include in our stack.

These are my thoughts. Also we will be attacking long before we get redcoats. We may be able to bring up Grenadiers, but we should not base plans on getting them. Our greatest strategic advantage will come from cannons.

This would be a pretty bare bones stack for the valley in my opinion. But I think it could get the job done with a similarly sized stack from Team Cav.
10 siege units
3 Xbows
2 Pikemen
2 longbows (we will need to defend a newly captured cities)
3 musketmen
3 maces
3 knights

That is 26 units. If anything I would add additional siege units and knights.