Tactics and Strategy Turns 100-120

[Indiansmoke]

yea we can do an archer later, lets do a sword now to have another unit protecting our new city.

Atyrau can do moai using overflow from 2 pop wips. that is why we need 2 improved tiles, cottages Idially so we can work them grow and slave...sea tiles will do with the lighthouse but cottages will grow....

We also need barracks there before maoi.

I would suggest cottage now, chop next (hammers to barracks) and then cottage again before connecting fur.

 

[Kaleb]

Ok, I agree with cottaging next and then chop, but don't see why we need another cottage :/

So build order for Atyrau: finish spear > finish lhouse > barracks > 2 pop whip > overflow to moai > units + whip overflow to moai

 

[damnrunner]

Was the 100% success of religious spread something new in BTS? I swear I have had trouble with that in vanilla. If that is the case then a missionary is the way to go.

My thinking on the cottage was that Atyrau is a production focused city. We should be specializing our cities and Atyrau is not going to be commerce focused – in the mid to late game this may change – but not anytime soon.

If we really do want/need the commerce – we can work the sea tiles which provide 2 food and 3 commerce. Right now a cottage will only give 1 commerce and it will be a very long time until it gives more than the 3 commerce we can get now from the ocean (especially considering the fact that we will only work this tile in between population whips). By the time the cottage starts to produce more than 3 commerce we should have Moi Statues. At that point we will work the ocean tiles and the cottage will just sit there.

We are better off building something besides a cottage. A farm to extend irrigation towards Atyrau was my suggestion but I am open to others.

 

[Kaleb]

If we want to use the sea tiles we should finish the lighthouse first, it will be done on the turn the city grows.

 

[Indiansmoke]

@ Damrunner..I never understood the labeling, production cities or commerce cities etc. My understanding is to make the best of your land..and the best for the grassland tiles we have is to cottage them, not farm them...cottages will grow and give us lots of tech, we have to look at long term as well...and my view is we should cottage the most we can. Later when we have more tech than we need we can specialize by farms and workshops.

@ Kaleb...spear first so it can get to front city which we will settle in 3 turns..correct?

 

[damnrunner]

@ Damrunner..I never understood the labeling, production cities or commerce cities etc. My understanding is to make the best of your land..and the best for the grassland tiles we have is to cottage them, not farm them...cottages will grow and give us lots of tech, we have to look at long term as well...and my view is we should cottage the most we can. Later when we have more tech than we need we can specialize by farms and workshops.

Commerce vs. production cities are defined by the other stuff you build in the city. A city's buildings and tile improvements should compliment each other. We don't waste the hammers building a library or a market in a city that has low commerce. A production city should focus on buildings that increase hammers and otherwise should build units. Conversely, a city with the potential for high commerce should get as many cottages as it can support. For instance - if we were not at war right now - building a barracks in Aktua (a GP city) would be a bad idea as it is a waste of hammers that could be better spent on something that reinforces what the city is meant to do.

The iron city actually does have decent commerce potential, due to all the water tiles - but with the iron mine and moai statues it will be more of a production focused city.

The bigger issue though is when are we going to work that cottage if we do make it? Once we get moai statues we will get more gold and +1 hammer working a sea tile than we will from a level 1 cottage. For a level two cottage we wil get equal gold. Only after the cottage gets to level 3 will it produce more gold than a sea tile will. And even then we still get the +1 hammer from the sea tiles. So even then I think we will work sea tiles anyway. So we will only want to work the cottage after we have a big enough population to work all the sea tiles. That is a long way off.

Again - we have plenty of other stuff for our worker to be doing. Speed up a gold mine. Road to the new city. Chop a forest. Pre chop a forest by the new city so that when it is built it gets a chop right away. Just a few ideas.

 

[cav scout]

Damnrunner has a good point here. Perhaps we should hook up the furs and then send the worker to another city that needs improvement. Atyrau can do just fine working water tiles and the iron.

 

[damnrunner]

I forgot about the fur - that is an important resource we want to hook up.

After we could build farms to increase population faster and use that for pop rushing. But I think that out worker has better work to do in other cities - the flood plains city will have a border expansion soon and it is great place for cottages.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I also would like to get the fur, which will get us a quick 5 IIRC.

 

[cav scout]

Well i'm not sure if working the tile is the best thing for Atyrau (unless we need to boost for a turn or two). But having the furs hooked up helps with the happy cap, especially when we get markets going.

 

[Indiansmoke]

Commerce vs. production cities are defined by the other stuff you build in the city. A city's buildings and tile improvements should compliment each other. We don't waste the hammers building a library or a market in a city that has low commerce. A production city should focus on buildings that increase hammers and otherwise should build units. Conversely, a city with the potential for high commerce should get as many cottages as it can support. For instance - if we were not at war right now - building a barracks in Aktua (a GP city) would be a bad idea as it is a waste of hammers that could be better spent on something that reinforces what the city is meant to do.

The iron city actually does have decent commerce potential, due to all the water tiles - but with the iron mine and moai statues it will be more of a production focused city.

The bigger issue though is when are we going to work that cottage if we do make it? Once we get moai statues we will get more gold and +1 hammer working a sea tile than we will from a level 1 cottage. For a level two cottage we wil get equal gold. Only after the cottage gets to level 3 will it produce more gold than a sea tile will. And even then we still get the +1 hammer from the sea tiles. So even then I think we will work sea tiles anyway. So we will only want to work the cottage after we have a big enough population to work all the sea tiles. That is a long way off.

Again - we have plenty of other stuff for our worker to be doing. Speed up a gold mine. Road to the new city. Chop a forest. Pre chop a forest by the new city so that when it is built it gets a chop right away. Just a few ideas.

Again, the buildings you build depend on the tiles you work and your health, hapiness and global needs...Saying that a city will not build a library because it has low commerce, when this city has big production and you need 6 unis for Oxford is just silly. Saying a city will not build a forge because it has low production when it has food for slaving is again silly..and so on.

So back to specific issue at hand

of course we can do with working sea tiles growing and slaving...but..we will gain an extra commerce for few turns (10 turns) and delay the cottage growing.

Even when moai is build it is still worth working the cottages to grow the instead of getting the 1 hammer. With the fish the city will grow fast anyway and will eventually work all sea tiles and cottages..difference is that cottages will have matured.

Also in the slaving phase growing the cottage to make it town is more important than getting 1 hammer from the sea tile..eventually all tiles wil be worked anyway.

A town under printing press is 6 commerce, 3 more than the sea tile. 3 more commerce with library and uni and the minimum 1.2 multiplier for techs means 5 beackers...so basically you are getting 5 beackers for exchange to 1 hammer.

 

[donsig]

Please offer archery to the Mad Ones.

 

[damnrunner]

@ indian

Do we plan on having any cities that build units? I think this city and Osk should really just have a forge, barracks, and then build units unless there is something else to build in the city that directly helps it build more units. Once we get guilds I would be a fan of putting workshops and farms to help support them.

yes we may build a university to help get oxford or a bank for Wall Street - but if we can build these elsewhere where they can have bigger impact that would be my preference. Do you also want to build a market, observatory, grocer - in order to max out commerce here. I think our hammers would be better spent on catapults.

You mentioned that a fully developed cottage will result in an exchange of 5 beakers for the one hammer we could get from the moai. If commerce is more important that production why are we building the moai? If you don't want to work those see tiles while build it in the 1st place?

Commerce is important but the game is won with units. Which we currently don't have enough of.

Anyhow - our votes cancel out on this. I think we have both argued this one to death.

 

[Kaleb]

I think Atyrau should have one cottage to use whislt we grow and whip for the moai OR we should get the lighthouse first.

We can finish lighthouse first - city will grow and then we whip the spear. That ok?

Last things to decide are what to build in Pav and Aktau. One should build a mish (aktau?) I think the other should go for a spy.

Osk can build sword.

 

[damnrunner]

My thoughts:

Atyrau – as I indicated before – lighthouse.

Pav should do a mish and then spy

Aktau has a barracks and I think should do a catapult or chariot.

 

[Indiansmoke]

aktau maybe continue forge...it should get stable and HA elephants after that.

Missionary Pav

and atyrau you know my thoughts..

 

[Kaleb]

ok, let's do the mish in Pav - I'll wait to get HBR from MS so we can start a HA in Aktau and then whip the Forge when the pop grows using overflow for Stable and then finishing the HA.

I'm going for the lighthouse in Atyrau and we'll whip the spear as soon as we grow. Sry Smokey

 

[Sommerswerd]

I know I am weighing in late on this but I would also favor a Spy soon... Maybe when one of our cities finishes the current build, we can build another Spy.

 

[Kaleb]

I know I am weighing in late on this but I would also favor a Spy soon... Maybe when one of our cities finishes the current build, we can build another Spy.

totally with you there!! I'd love a spy on a boat even more

 

[Sommerswerd]

Where/when would we build a Galley? Im assuming you want to inspect the SE SANCTA territory with a spy landed N of the Mountains...