Tactics and Strategy Turns 100-120

[cav scout]

We might consider keeping a spy in our borders to kill any spies SANCTA might send.

 

[damnrunner]

I am not such a fan of a spy on a boat. Once we land the spy we will not have much use for the galley. I'd rather walk a spy over via land.

 

[Kaleb]

Well, I think that whole plan needs to be re-evaluated:

Spoiler :

 

[Bolkonski]

I looks increasingly possible that SANCTA could attempt a pincer movement with an attack in the north and on our capital.

In the north:

Spoiler :

Sancta's axeman has a Woodsman III promotion, which will make this unit very powerful in forests. Our axeman defending the northern forest adjacent to the Syr Darya River needs to be promoted as well as fortified. It will be all the more important to establish our next city on the central plains hill so that we have a good view and command of the grassland and plains in front. I hope that we get there first.

In the south:

Spoiler :

Our trireme being produced in the capital should go north and block the coastal route to the plains hill where we have our warrior. We should consider building a road to the plains hill. A fort on the hill would be worthwhile.

We need to produce more military units and get on with this fast. I would suggest we produce catapults until we are able to get Crossbowmen. We need to engage Cav to help us against SANCTA; it is in their interests and we need to use our diplomatic skills to convince them of this.

Finally, why are we spending nothing on research at present?

 

[damnrunner]

We can’t let the Wood III axe get into the southern forests. I think we should move up our chariot so that we can attack them if they move it south.

I am with Bolo on building a road to our northern coast. I think we may also want to build a archer (or a few archers) in Pav. The missionary is also needed but we need to defend those hills. Xbows will be better later – but an archer on a hill with the 50% seaborne attack bonus should be ok. We can’t let them fortify a longbow on the hills.

 

[Kaleb]

We should build the archer for the coast somewhere that has a barracks for the xtra guerilla promotion.

Finally, why are we spending nothing on research at present?

2 turns at 0% will get us cash for 3 turns at 100%, we gain a couple of beakers from that and Haz will be able to use the new cottage at 100%

We can’t let the Wood III axe get into the southern forests.

Yes, that's why I moved our Axe into our forest, we'll fortify him there next turn. He also spotted a slightly wounded Waterstof on the copper hill. Our axes shouldn't take promotions until they need them, better to conceal they have them from the enemy.

 

[Bolkonski]

We can’t let the Wood III axe get into the southern forests. I think we should move up our chariot so that we can attack them if they move it south.

I am with Bolo on building a road to our northern coast. I think we may also want to build a archer (or a few archers) in Pav. The missionary is also needed but we need to defend those hills. Xbows will be better later – but an archer on a hill with the 50% seaborne attack bonus should be ok. We can’t let them fortify a longbow on the hills.

Maybe Cav can help us in the north with their Chariot, which has the Shock promotion. If Cav are agreeable, I suggest that they move the Chariot to the Grassland tile to the E of the Syr Darya River and SE of the Cow. We would need to follow through and back up the Chariot with our Axemen giving one a Woodsman promotion and the other a Combat promotion and moving them north to the plains tile to the W of the Wheat. It is important to act fast before that SANCTA Axeman fortifies too much.

Spoiler :

In the south a Fort on the coastal hill would give any Archery units an additional 50% defence bonus. Also, once inside our borders it could act as a safe harbour for a Trireme with the same healing rate (20 HP per turn) as a city. We could defend the coast relatively easily with two Triremes.

 

[cav scout]

Pav needs a barracks before we produce any more units there. SANCTA's units are all going to be promoted so we need ours to be as well.

 

[damnrunner]

I agree we want the barracks - but there is a good chance Sancta is gearing for something naval.

Sancta is not ready to launch a full attack but they may try to grab foot hold on our side of mountains. And once they get a LB fortified on a hill we will lose a lot of units trying to kill it.

Even an unpromoted archer would do ok against a sea based attack. Another option would be to bring back our chariot - especially useful if Team Cav is willing to keep theirs in the area.

 

[Indiansmoke]

Our turn is up...

some suggestions.

1. Slave missionary in Pavlodar..work food to regrow.
2. Slave sword
3. Slave granary
4. move axe on forest plains hill
5. move settler there
6. move one worker into the forest (behind settler) to start choping..do we have worker available?


BTW....weird...from screen it seems we are making 10 beackers a turn at 0%...should be 21 beackers from the 2 scientists...I don't get it?

 

[Bolkonski]

Our turn is up...

some suggestions.

1. Slave missionary in Pavlodar..work food to regrow.
2. Slave sword
3. Slave granary
4. move axe on forest plains hill
5. move settler there
6. move one worker into the forest (behind settler) to start choping..do we have worker available?

Some comments:

1. The missionary should go on hold. We need a Barracks in Pav.
2. We need defensive units. Forget about the Swordsman for now. We should build either a Spearman or a Catapult in Oskemen.
3, 4, & 5. Agreed, but I still think the city should be on the northern plains hill.
6. Workers should build roads to the northern city.

Only if Cav are agreeable, which may require them to declare war on SANCTA next turn, I suggest the following to take out or force SANCTA to move their Woodsman III before it gets a fortification bonus and is fortified by a Spearman and/or Chariot. One of our Axemen should be given Combat promotions. Red Arrows are this turn. Yellow arrows are next turn and only if necessary for our Axemen.

Spoiler :

 

[Indiansmoke]

Some comments:

1. The missionary should go on hold. We need a Barracks in Pav.
2. We need defensive units. Forget about the Swordsman for now. We should build either a Spearman or a Catapult in Oskemen.
3, 4, & 5. Agreed, but I still think the city should be on the northern plains hill.
6. Workers should build roads to the northern city.

1. we need culture and organized bonus for front city.

2. sword is a defensive unit also. It can defend against chariots and even against axe when fortified on a hill...and most importantly it can beat longbows on flat ground (or at least has 50% odds).

6. road to northen city is already build, we need to send one worker in forest to start chopping.

 

[Kaleb]

1. Slave missionary in Pavlodar..work food to regrow.

Don't we want Pav to grow? Surely we need at least one city to grow to a decent size for production later on down the line...?

2. Slave sword

Now? or how about we wait a turn for the city to grow and thenwhip?

3. Slave granary

the worker will finish the chop in a sec. Btw borders pop in 3 turns.

4. move axe on forest plains hill
5. move settler there

I was going to move the catapult along with them as well. We really need a garrison unit in Osk btw, the unhappiness is at it's limit...

6. move one worker into the forest (behind settler) to start choping..do we have worker available?

Yes. The worker on the spy will finish the road. They spy can move 2 and the worker SW of the spy can move on to the forest.

from screen it seems we are making 10 beackers a turn at 0%...should be 21 beackers from the 2 scientists...I don't get it?

No, it's only 10. 6 plus 25% from Library and 50% from Academy = 10. We're not running Representation

 

[Bolkonski]

1. we need culture and organized bonus for front city.

2. sword is a defensive unit also. It can defend against chariots and even against axe when fortified on a hill...and most importantly it can beat longbows on flat ground (or at least has 50% odds).

6. road to northen city is already build, we need to send one worker in forest to start chopping.

1. I am not disagreeing with you. I am just thinking in terms of our priorities.

2. Swordsmen are best for attacking cities. A better unit for attacking Longbowmen with the same 50% odds, more if promoted is a Horse Archer. Even better still are Knights. BTW we need to build a Stable somewhere.

6. Well, it depends where you put the northern city and, unless I missed something, we have not decided finally on that yet. I am not convinced that the southern hill is the better site.

 

[Indiansmoke]

Bolkonski, we talk here about what can be done, build now..what do longbows and knights have to do with anything?

Swordsman is a 6 strenth unit, the 10% bonus at attacking cities is a bonus, that does not take away his 6 strenght base.

A combat 1 sword defending on a hill to a combat 1 axe is 5.1 vs 5.5 close odds....
a combat 1 swordsman fortified for 5 turns on a hill defending to a combat 1 axe is 6.6 to 5.5...i.e beats the axe!

That is what I am trying to say that a sword defending on a hill is a better unit than a spear in many ways.
It is also a better unit than the spear attacking wounded units from catapults. Having 5-6 swords and 3-4 catapults you can defend very well against most unit mixes...they are better than axes in that role...example a wounded combat 1 axe from catapults down to 3.5 health attacked by combat 1 sword will be 5.6 vs 6.6 in favor of the sword.

So there are alot of reasons to build some swords to have at border city...labeling them attacking units only is an oversight.

Now regarding misionary...I am talking about what we need as well and what we need is immidiate culture on that front city and 25% bonus on our chops for granary and barracks.

Barracks can come after in Pavlodar

Finnaly regarding the placement of the city...it is not wise to put a city in range of 1 move hit by mounted units...especially when your power is lower than your opponent's. Not to mention the fact that the second ring of the city will be in Sancta culture and we are not getting back!

 

[Indiansmoke]

No, it's only 10. 6 plus 25% from Library and 50% from Academy = 10. We're not running Representation

DOH...settled scientist is 6 beackers, 9 with representation...but I guess great library settled scientist is 3 beackers!? Cannot believe I never noticed that!

 

[Bolkonski]

At the moment we have:

1 Archer, 1 Chariot, 5 Warriors, 3 Axemen, 1 Spearman and 1 Catapult.

The warriors and archer are on Scouting and Garrison duties.

So effectively we have 1 Chariot, 3 Axemen, 1 Spearman and 1 Catapult.

We are ranged against Chariots, Axemen and Spearmen. What I suggest we need is balanced armies. A Swordsman would not be my first choice as it is principally an attacking unit, whether against cities or units. We are not going to be doing much attacking in the next while. We do need more units and I would go first for Spearmen and second for Chariots; I would like two more of each. That will give us balanced armies. After that I would go for Catapults, then Swordsmen but if you want a unit with a strength of 6 I suggest a Horse Archer would be a better choice but I would not even do that at present.

I take your point about the Missionary but regarding the city placement I am not convinced. The southern site would be better if we did not have to defend it. The northern site will be far easier to defend across the grassland and plains. We do not have enough units to defend the northern hills, although if we were to produce Chariots and Spearmen we would do. If you want one army in the northern city a Chariot, axeman, Spearman and Swordsman is not a bad way to go but I would prefer two or three armies each comprised of Chariot, Axeman and a Spearman especially if you choose the southern site for the city.

 

[Indiansmoke]

At the moment we have:

1 Archer, 1 Chariot, 5 Warriors, 3 Axemen, 1 Spearman and 1 Catapult.

The warriors and archer are on Scouting and Garrison duties.

So effectively we have 1 Chariot, 3 Axemen, 1 Spearman and 1 Catapult.

We are ranged against Chariots, Axemen and Spearmen. What I suggest we need is balanced armies. A Swordsman would not be my first choice as it is principally an attacking unit, whether against cities or units. We are not going to be doing much attacking in the next while. We do need more units and I would go first for Spearmen and second for Chariots; I would like two more of each. That will give us balanced armies. After that I would go for Catapults, then Swordsmen but if you want a unit with a strength of 6 I suggest a Horse Archer would be a better choice but I would not even do that at present.

I take your point about the Missionary but regarding the city placement I am not convinced. The southern site would be better if we did not have to defend it. The northern site will be far easier to defend across the grassland and plains. We do not have enough units to defend the northern hills, although if we were to produce Chariots and Spearmen we would do. If you want one army in the northern city a Chariot, axeman, Spearman and Swordsman is not a bad way to go but I would prefer two or three armies each comprised of Chariot, Axeman and a Spearman especially if you choose the southern site for the city.

I don't get it...one minute you talk about protecting our hills from longbowmen next thing I hear is we need chariots and spears for defence...decide please will we face longbowmen or not?

If we face longbowmen is sword better than chariot or spear?

 

[Bolkonski]

2. sword is a defensive unit also. It can defend against chariots and even against axe when fortified on a hill...and most importantly it can beat longbows on flat ground (or at least has 50% odds).

My comment about Longbowmen was in response to your post as you can see above. It is quite possible that we will face Longbowmen and if that were to occur a Swordsman would be superior to a Chariot or a Spearman but I put it to you that a far better unit against a Longbowman would be a Horse Archer and we should be producing these.

But we are not facing Longbowmen at the moment; we are facing Chariots, Axemen and Spearmen.

Suffice it to say it looks as though we will have a Swordsman. Next, I would prefer that we build units to defend the north. I have stated my reasons above and what I think we need right now.

 

[cav scout]

It won't be long before we can make crossbows and maces. Archers as cheap garrisons and catapults are good choices.