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Tactics and Strategy Turns 70-80

Discussion in 'Team Kazakhstan' started by Provolution, Mar 7, 2009.

  1. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    Tactics and Strategy Turns 70-80

    I am taking up the torch here, as I said I would be more back into the game as soon as we got Confucianism and Code of Laws, and now we got it (Congratulates ourselves).

    There is a broad consensus that we should go for Great Library in our capital, to max out the Academy already there and to leverage Hazrate and our general research. This means we are now heading for Aethetics-Literature Road, which will take up most of the next 10 turns.

    I also want to make sure we are not forgetting Shepadagon Paya (Free choice of religious civics) which requires gold, which we also get. As Pavlodar got to become the religious city, we are to see a few religious wonders there, such as the Confucian key wonder. This means we need to max out food in Pavlodar, in order to make sure we got enough food capacity for those hills. Or production capacity is now becoming dangerously low. It is all good and dandy we got a competitive research, but it does not really help much, when we got a very limited production capacity to benefit from it. I want us to leave this single-minded "Gold-gold-gold-gold, and was that silver you said there?" philosophy, and begin to specialize and focus our cities more:

    Hazrate: Research capital, build Great Library as first wonder
    Pavlodar: Religious city and overall wonder city (Confucian Great Wonder and S. Paya)
    Aktau: Our overall long term producer of settlers and workers to populate our lands
    Oskomen: Our military production city for cavalry units (Stable specialty)
    Gold City: Our commercial city
    Tundra/Iron City: Our Western Military Naval Port
    Gold/Furs City: Our far Western commercial center, but also well defended
    Copper Valley City: Our Internal Valley military production center for infantry


    We need to focus our cities more, not dibble dabble around with gold-gold-gold, as we now need both buildings and troops, and troops are becoming to cost more hammers.
    I am not happy until we climbed back to 2nd or 3rd place in GDP in mfg production.

    For the next 10 turns, we need to settle the center gold city and make that our commercial powerhouse, we need to get all irrigable tiles in the Pavlodar BFC to become food tiles, in order for us to be able to expand the city and utilize the hills, for us to work more much needed hammers.

    We also need to place a few units in the valley gap by the copper, to make sure its occupied until we got a settler ready for it during turns 80-90.
     
  2. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    This is what I think we should do with the missionary, to settle in Hazrate first.

    Our next city should be the gold city, not the copper city.
     
  3. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    Kalebs turn 72 plan.

     
  4. Herviov

    Herviov Chieftain

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    An ally in the push for a more industrially civilization!. Everyone remember this: When we say the developed world, we refer to the industrialized nation!
     
  5. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    I agree Herviov, what we have now is more like Saudi and Kuwaiti economy, all commerce and slavery and questionable tile usage. :)
     
  6. Kaleb

    Kaleb Deity

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    Amended tactics:

    Turn 72
    Warriors > Fortify
    Chariots > deal with barbs as appropriate
    Worker 1 > building camp
    Worker 2 > road
    Worker 3 > W, road on wine
    Scout > stay put or go west?
    Party Boat > continue
    Missionary > Move to Hazrat-e
    End turn
    Oskemen > build Chariot


    I'll reply to your more medium-term strategy points (with the usual barbs thrown in for good measure) in another thread...
     
  7. cav scout

    cav scout The Continuum

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    I'm not still not convinced that Pav should be a production city, it could do nicely with cottages on the river...
     
  8. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    Well, then we are in disagreement again, I just do not like that we are very behind on production, and the aspect of cottages smothers the growth of Pavlodar. We need more production, and we need production in the holy city, a safe place to build and place future wonders.
     
  9. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

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    Good point, but we do need a production city, so where will it be?
     
  10. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    I think there is a lot of wishful thinking out there. Hazrate got a strong commercial bent, some want Pavlodar to have a commercial bent as well. Oskomen can never produce anything but the occasional troop, at a slow rate, and the next gold city is yes, another cottage spamming paradise. Pavlodar was our industrial hope, and that industrial hope was laid dead, and now we are stuck with a singleminded commercial plan.

    Maybe there has been a faint hope that Copper City or Iron city should do some production, but the slavery practices have delayed that a bit. I am deliberately raising a factual concern here, even if it stirs up a couple of people. But if we do not change our ways, we will not be able to keep the valley entrance safe, that simple.
     
  11. cav scout

    cav scout The Continuum

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    The iron and copper cities will be solid production centers when we get them up and running. Provo I know you think we are leaning to heavily towards commerce right now. But we need commerce to fuel the REXing we are focused on.
     
  12. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    "A" Production City? I sure hope we will have more than one production city going forward.
     
  13. Kaleb

    Kaleb Deity

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    Oskemen's production won't be that bad, it has cows and horses so that's 7:hammers: right there. We should farm the flood plains it has so by pop 4 (working horse, cow, FP and wine) it will have 11:food: 9:hammers: 7:commerce: which isn't bad at all.

    Provo, one thing I don't understand though is why, if you are so keen on boosting growth and production and moving away from this "autistic gold, gold, gold" strategy do you think we should switch to Caste System of all things??

    I still think Pavlodar should be a production city, which is why we have built 2 farms and 2 mines for the city so far. By allocating the one tile it overlaps to another city has by no means made Pavlodar a "dead" hope. It still 2 grassland tiles to build farms on, and next I would mine the "grassy knoll" for Pav.
     
  14. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    I just want to end the campaign to cottage spam the Pavlodar Valley, something a few proponents have been working on. There has been a struggle for the soul of Pavlodar, and to make Pavlodar cede land to Hazrate, which cannot utilize all tiles anyways. With this, I am quite sure there will be less support for indeed adding more cottages around Pavlodar, get down to business, make farms for the rest of the valley and the make as many mines as we can. We will see later if its worth changing that border tile back to farm later, but that is not an issue for the next 40 turns or so.

    Caste System would be good in Aktau a bit later, when the city has grown added food. I can see that Hazrate E and Aktau make a few city specialists to fit our production needs. We can still wait with the civics revolt till a few core units are built, but we should get the revolt within the next 15 turns or so.

    Oskemen is a decent production city for rank and file units that are relatively cheap, as I said, but it is not something I consider a production powerhouse. Until further notice, Pavlodar may need to do that job, not more doing this slaver rexer thing. :)

    All in good, I made my point strong, to make everyone aware the strong need for a shift towards production, away from commerce.
     
  15. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    When revolution is over I would like to consider changing Hazrate's production to a settler, (or at least once it reaches pop 7) and posibly build 2 or 3 settlers in a row.

    We need to get going with some aggressive REX, let Cavalieros and MS do the teching for awhile.
     
  16. Kaleb

    Kaleb Deity

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    Yeah, I think starting a settler turn after next (ie on pop 7) isn't a bad idea, we can get to pop 8 with happiness to spare but then we'd need to improve another tile or we'd be working an unimproved tile or running a scientist.

    If we wait until pop 8 we'll also have the granary done meaning we could even consider doing a 2 pop whip to get the settler done quickly and recover the pop quite fast.

    But we really should try and run some more sim games to look at different scenarios.

    We do want Great Library but we don't have workers available to chop Haz if we beeling Literature, and no-one else seems to be after Aest so we aren't in as much time pressure as we previously thought.
     
  17. Indiansmoke

    Indiansmoke Deity

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    We need more workers now, I would suggest worker in capital after it grows.

    Idially the plan in capital would be to make worker (go improve wine), settler, worker (grow because of wine), worker again great library.

    this is why I said pre cottage and not chop because we want the chops to time with great library and then teh workers to move on to other cities...prechopping only comes too early and then we have to bring workers back for cottages.

    but we need to see what happens with monotheism as well..If noone goes for it (but we get masonry from exchange) I would suggest we tech it ourselves so we can addopt organized and monarchy with 1 turn of anarchy.

    I will run some tests later today.
     
  18. Kaleb

    Kaleb Deity

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    I'll try and do the same. I think we have an opportunity here because SANCTA and Saturn will both be competing for a religion now as otherwise they'll have to wait a while to get Poly (which we could bulb).

    OR would be very useful and good way to counter SANCTA's forges.
     
  19. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

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    You mean philo, right? :confused: Or is Hinduism still up for grabs?
     
  20. Kaleb

    Kaleb Deity

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    Judaism is still available. But there may be two teams racing for it (and we could beat both easily if we wanted to). If Saturn want a religion other than Judaism Philosophy is the next available option, probably the same for SANCTA realistically too. Christianity and Islam are still quite a way off... and it's rather late to be getting your first religion then!
     

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