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Tactics: invading AI continent in Modern Age

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by Out4Blood, Nov 13, 2001.

  1. Out4Blood

    Out4Blood Chieftain

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    Fighting a war on another continent can be a difficult experience. Here's a tip for making D-Day a little less tramatic by taking advantage of the AI's inability to wage war.

    Once the AI has built railroads, he will respond to your invasion force IMMEDIATELY with almost every mobile unit in his entire arsenal. By fortifying your high defense infantry on a mountain with a railroad connection, you can pretty much wipe out his entire army in one turn. Make sure you are already at war with the AI, so he will attack your units on sight.

    1. Split your forces in to 2 groups: Have a large invasion force ready - generally two full transports are necessary to be successful in modern ages. Also have a vanguard landing force - which is just infantry.

    2. Make your large invasion force a large combined arms force: 1 part mech infantry (high defense), 1 part tank (high attack and speedy), 1 part artillery (bombardment). Make your vanguard just infantry (3-4 units, but large enough to withstand assault)

    3. Drop the vanguard on the a mountain square, near an enemy town and one that is connected via rails (or roads, if no rail). Only drop your vanguard, in case he has too many units. You don't want to risk your artillery or high attack units.

    4. The enemy will attack with almost everything he has. Since you are on the mountains, you will have a very high defense. Additionally, you will win may of the battles, and almost all of your units will reach elite status - you might even get a great leader out of it.

    5. On the next turn, land your invasion force. The coast should be clear and you can now go on the attack without a horde of units coming after you.
     
  2. tetley

    tetley Head tea leaf

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    Yeah I've noticed the AI throws everything he has at you. You definitely need a high-defense force. It would be nice if you could land armies, because that would be perfect for this situation.

    Here's my tip: hurry an airport the minute you quell resistance in your first city. That basically opens the floodgates for your reinforcements. Plus, when you acquire that new resource that you were staging your invasion for in the first place, you can fly your units back home to upgrade.
     
  3. Craterus22

    Craterus22 King

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    I am Germany in a war with a France that had dominated the early game on the main continent. There are a couple of nice choke points(3 squares or less) on the make for both the ocean and land units.

    I plopped a city on the frontier of the recently conquered Amercan portion of the mainland. French cities have low border growth so that I can hav e a main base of operations.

    I load up the city and then start attacking in frontier land. All the Ai armies comeup north. Durin this time I send out infantry to pillage RR's to break up th e route home for the ai.

    Unfortunately for them they ignored the 3 transports full of mixed armies of panzers and infantry that were floating in the channel near the developed portion of the mainland. Battleships and destroyers block the fast water route back to the AI homeland.

    I land and next turn send out multiple infantry to pillage more RR's (and create a wall)at the choke point and this results in the Ai armies being stuck up north while I bombard thier size 22 cities with the floatilla force.

    The AI should develop a reserve force that is held back for multi-prong attacks... HAs anyone seen the AI do it? I was sorely disappointed...

    ps I didn't have a problem landing armies, but for me the war started upnorth THEN I landed the armies.
     
  4. eMarkM

    eMarkM Chieftain

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    D-Day invasions are very tough in Civ3, but can be mitigated by taking advantage of timing and resource placement. When a civ doesn't have a resource or tech that makes your units much stronger compared to theirs, strike while you can.

    This is an obvious point, but it's really important in D-Day oversea invasion situations where the AI has the units of entire RR-connected empire at his disposal and you have logistical problems of crossing an ocean to get to them.

    English were ahead of me in tech, but had no oil. They were uppity the whole game and at the time were my closest rival. If it came to a UN vote I thought the English would be able to take me or be a deciding vote against me.

    I was forced into war with English by MPP with my weak vassal, the Iroquois, who did have oil but didn't have tech to see it. I had tanks vs English riflemen so I decided to invade in force to prevent the English from getting the oil and getting them even militarily with me. Four fully packed transports of tanks, infantry & artillery landed on English shores and I swept away the opposition in a brute frontal assault that focused on taking out their capitol. They couldn't produce Infantry to defend and I obliterated not only their capitol, but was able to sweep Liz and her empire off the map completely. Had I waited until they got the oil from the Iroquois or traded with other civ, it would have been a much tougher game for me and invasion may not have been a viable option.

    Situations like this that makes this such a great game.

    e
     
  5. NoLongerTrippin

    NoLongerTrippin Chieftain

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    There are several glaring breaks in the games wartime AI... Railroads seem to be one of them. With roads, the AI tends to keep some stuff in reserve as it can't throw it all at you at once... I have tried multipronged attacks on the AI w/ and w/out railroads. With railroads, it is so easy it is pathetic. Fortifying a few defense based units on a high valued defense tile seems to break the AIl. Unless it is a strategic resource that it desperately needs, I see no reason for it to slam it's dick in a door just to reclaim all those 'magnificent' amounts of shields from one plain mountain.

    It attacks better than civ 2 or smac, but it defends worse than civ 2, and on par with smac (it at least uses it's air units :) and counterattacks weak areas, sometimes. . .)

    Sadly this can't be fixed by moding unit attack values (which I would have pitched this game without the ability to do), this has to be an actual code change, something firaxis is notoriously "great" at. :rolleyes: The only way to "fix" it would be to take out railroads, :rolleyes: although it will still throw some stuff at you needlessly, just not the entire bloody continent. So avoid the high ground during initial attacks if you want to give the AI a break.
     
  6. Azrockcrawler

    Azrockcrawler Chieftain

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    Maybe you shouldn't be allowed to move onto a mountain or hill square from a transport. Historically invasions have always been on flat, sandy beachs where the defender had a significant advantage. This would also provide a use for paratroopers since they should be able to land anywhere.
     
  7. knowltok

    knowltok Guest

    Good idea on the landing on flat terrain. That way you would have to work to get to the mountains. I'm not even sure that paratroops should be allowed to land in mountains. At least not without a HP penalty. Landing in mountains and trees is extremely dangerous for airborne troops.
     
  8. Azrockcrawler

    Azrockcrawler Chieftain

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    I should have said paratroopers dropped from helicopters. Yeah, no way I'd jump out of a plane into the mountains.
     
  9. Richard III

    Richard III Duke of Gloucester

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    So the AI does hurl troops at the first sign of invasion! Excellent news, if true. I left my Greek game last night at a point just before getting tanks.

    I've been building up along an extended north-south border to invade my former ally France, which got more than its fair share from our southern wars for the planet's good and must now pay the price. Plus they are pink, and its France, and either is reason enough.

    The French have a very large and mountainous civ, with large numbers of cavalry and moderate mix of pikes and musketeers.

    I am on the west side of the continent, and France on the east, with Paris well protected in a thick peninsula in the northeast. There are two routes through the mountains to get at Paris and the French heartland: through the Dijon plain in the north and through the Poiters-Cherbourg-Besancon gap in the centre.

    My plan as of last night (for which everything is in place except the tanks):

    TURN ONE:

    1. Bomb railways leading to choke points in the Poiters gap.

    2. Artillery barrage from 2 sqs. away aimed at border guards.

    3. Infantry cross the border - putting them within attacking range of three cities (Dijon, Avignon - between the gaps, and Poiters).

    4. Small task force of cavalry pushes through to take Dijon with fighter support.

    Wait. Hope they take the bait.

    TURN TWO

    Hopefully, by this point, most of the French troops will have used their intact northern railways to focus everything on the Dijon diversion. Meanwhile, as they duke it out o the Dijon plain:

    1. Artillery moves by rail to Dijon front to help hold line.

    2. Bombers raid Poiters, Cherbourg.

    3. Tanks take Poiters.

    4. Infantry move in to hold Poiters against resistance.

    5. Cavalry exploit the breach, move ahead of tanks to secure flanks against counterattacks.

    Rinse and repeat to Besancon and then Paris.

    Thoughts?
     
  10. Ohwell

    Ohwell Deity

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    I usually play on a large archipelago with 70 % water, so D-Day invasions are a neccesity for me. I think they are actually easier in modern ages. Take 4 transports, 1 with mech inf, 1 with modern armor, 1 with radar artillery and the last assorted. land all the units on the same mountain square. Bomb the heck out of them with battleships, destroyers, and bombers in carriers. Then next turn use modern armor to kick butt and take the city.:sniper: :rocket3:
     
  11. Sam

    Sam Chieftain

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    In an invasion situation, don't spend too much time worrying about the small stuff (fortress outposts, size 1 cities) unless they're of TRUE strategic importance (i.e., you need to establish a base of operations there), or guarded by a truly wimpy force (say, 1 or 2 infantry). The trick in any war, especially modern conflicts, is to hit the enemy hard where they're strongest. Your approach should be a crushing blow and then mop-up, not a gradual rollback and tightening of control. Dealing with the small stuff first just gives the enemy time to build up their defenses in their strong spots. Industrious cities should be a primary target for bombing missions and artillery. Split your forces only AFTER you've dealt with one enemy stronghold, or if it's in an area of enemy weakness.

    :tank:
     
  12. ironfang

    ironfang Warlord

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    In my modern D-Day invasion against China, Russia, and France, I took 1 city by transport storm, and then bombed the heck out of the enemies railroad structure, slowing the flood down to a steady trickle.

    ironfang
     
  13. TigerEngineer

    TigerEngineer Chieftain

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    One thing I found frustrating was that an "Army" of marines cannot attack off a transport. I have yet to try attacking with single marines from a transport, but I assume it works. It would make sense that an Army of Marines could do the same.
     
  14. stravaig

    stravaig Stand Up Philosopher

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    want to trade world maps?
    Good tips & thoughts everyone.

    I'm kinda avoiding a late game (modern era) war until the patch comes out, since I hate getting pelted by enemy bombers...

    Tiger -
    Armies are different (unfortunately). Tanks & Modern Armor lose their multiple attack ability. I'm sure that a Paratrooper Army can't jump, either. Also, they take up an extra space on transports. Oh, well.

    - Stravaig
     
  15. Darkadder

    Darkadder Chieftain

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    why bother waiting for the AI to come to you?

    Modern warfare is all about the tank - nothing else really matters.

    As soon as a continent is railroaded and tanks are available its lights out for the poor computer.

    4 transports - 8 marines, 24 modern armor - you can go with more, this would be a good starter for any large campaign.

    Prep invasion with massive aerial and coastal pounding. Reduce those infantry to as little health as possible. Move marine transport up and land. You should be able to take the weakened defenders in the same turn.

    Heres the kicker - once the city is captured, move your transports with modern armor in - *FROM THE CITY SCREEN* activate all your armor. Rather then having the one turn penalty for unloading from a boat, your units will have their full movement values - so thats 24 armor at your disposal *ON THE SAME TURN*.

    Now since the enemy is fully railroaded, map your targets according to their proximity to the landing city. 2 squares outside your sphere of influence is the goal - you can move armor up and attack this way.

    I took 5 cities from the technologically similar Greeks in the same turn using this strat. The great part is that once hes lost 2 or more cities, he will sue for peace at the end of the turn - this was true of regent difficulty anyway, not sure how willing for peace the AI is in harder settings.

    Anyway, at the end of the turn move what units you still can into your new cities to start quelling that resistance. You can wait 1 or 2 turns for resistance to fade, or press the attack - if hes all on the same continent you can quickly take him out completely if you keep moving. You can always ask for those annoying 1 - 3 island cities in subsequent peace negotiations. Ive found that any larger then 3 and the AI usually doesnt want to part with them (just take some bombers over and cut them down to size).

    A rule of thumb for me when taking over the AI is to keep all the cities I take. The supply lines are crucial to enabling a fast moving blitz type offence - by razing a city you dont really do anything but make it MUCH more time consuming to get to the next target city - you also lose the oft critical element of surprise, since the AI will no doubt see you coming.

    Also with democracy this is the only way to fight - your civ cant stand a protracted campaign, so you need to make them 1 - 2 turn affairs.

    It might be a pain to have many MANY corrupted cities, but its the fastest way to take out that pesky rival.

    DA
     
  16. ironfang

    ironfang Warlord

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    Good post DA.

    ironfang
     
  17. 4Lorn

    4Lorn Chieftain

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    Good strategy. I build a city on the hill and fly in bombers. Disband them for
    walls ( a little better defence never hurts.),
    harbor ( They will be occupying the ground around so the harbor supplies food),
    temple ( It would be a shame to invade only to loose the city to culture.) and most importantly an
    airport (Your pipeline for resources out, troops in and keeping those planes flying).
    Fly in units by the dozen and keep 10 or more bombers ready to bombard the attackers. Then go to the oposite side of thier contenent and do the same thing.
     
  18. Bretwalda

    Bretwalda Warlord

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    It is a very good idea to start with an airport on an another continent. Provided, that you have many airports on your own continent you can fly in as many units... Every turn! Ready to defend on the same turn and ready to move on the next.

    Especially useful if the continent is out of the reach of your transports - thereby shortening the time needed to put units into action...
     
  19. Bamspeedy

    Bamspeedy We'll dig up the road!

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    I have found a very hilarious thing to do to the AI when they have railroads. I had already won the game by spaceship, so I kept on playing just to see how bad a war would have been. There were 3 civs left (me, Germany, Persia), on a huge map. Needless to say, both Germany and Persia had 200+mech infantry and 150+tanks each!! Well, from previous wars there was some land that was unsettled (conquered areas, razed cities, etc.). If you have a small city (or invasion force) somewhere where the AI can get close to you, but not attack (because the railroads don't reach you, or your city's territory is too large for them to cross in one turn), they will send every unit at you anyways. So there was 200+ enemy tanks on one tile! It's nuke time, baby!!!:D
     
  20. God

    God God

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    Yeah i tried that once, THe AI rushed over to meet my vanguard. Its hundreds of tanks took down my infantry eventually after loosing 3/4ths of its army. Then came the nuke and took everybody out and then my tanks came in and finished off their cities.

    Another time i landed hundreds of artillery, tanks, and mech infantry on an open tile on a mountain next to AI. I signed a ROP and sent off tanks to resources. I cut up the resources, bombed the cities a bit(for fun) and then the AI did a mad rush. It sent waves of the cavalry and tanks and marines at me. My mech infantry were cutting them down and my artillery helped take out the first few waves by knocking them down 1 HP.
     

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