Take a look at this
- Thread starter Elear
- Start date
That's an interesting question, I hadn't even considered it.
The answer is..I really don't know yet.
One thing to consider about moving: I've been plagued by so called 'coastal' starts...I move, and I run into the coast a couple tiles away. Obviously, milk runs are terrible when your capital is on the coast, at least for an agricultural civ on Sid...
On the other hand, there's always a risk that if I settle there, I will end up with less room to fit other settler factories along that river. Additionally, as you said, taking the extra move is a consideration. I don't think spending one move is a terrible cost, however. I have even experimented with spending 2-3 moves before, and it didn't go terribly.
I think though, if I did move, it would be south or southeast. If you look carefully at the map, that would seem to me to lead the most away from possible coastlines.
So I'll have to think about that.
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
Not to be overly negative, but it's bound to be a tiny island. 
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
Why are coastal starts terrible? cause it takes longer to expand?
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
You also have a weaker core.
It comes down to two options:
1) Move the settler first and decide whether to move the worker.
2) Move the worker first and decide whether to move to settler.
I prefer the latter because it is more flexible. The only downside to it is that I would end up having to move the worker back (wasting 2 turns) if I wanted to irrigate the initial square first for my capitol.
I cannot honestly remember taking so long on the first turn before...
EDIT: Interestingly enough, N->NE looks like a forest, so maybe there won't be a coast?
EDIT 2: You know what they say...rivers flow into the sea. Therefore following the river one way or the other is probably a coast...
1) Move the settler first and decide whether to move the worker.
2) Move the worker first and decide whether to move to settler.
I prefer the latter because it is more flexible. The only downside to it is that I would end up having to move the worker back (wasting 2 turns) if I wanted to irrigate the initial square first for my capitol.
I cannot honestly remember taking so long on the first turn before...
EDIT: Interestingly enough, N->NE looks like a forest, so maybe there won't be a coast?
EDIT 2: You know what they say...rivers flow into the sea. Therefore following the river one way or the other is probably a coast...
On huge Sid, it deserves thought. But don't forget, in Civ 3 rivers can flow through the sea, so be careful with logical thinking.
Spoiler off topic :
A valid point. I really can't choose easily. North is good to me because of the forest tile, but south gives slightly more hope for extended grasslands. The river continues straight for at least one more tile SW, whilest the river will bend immediately NW from NE.
The 'goal' regardless, would be to establish 3 good factories along that river.
The 'goal' regardless, would be to establish 3 good factories along that river.
Spoiler :
Okay, I've played a half turn in, and it seems I made a good move. 
North is in fact, very promising. I'm now thinking NE for the settler; that would give an excellent chance for 3 to 4 settler factories:
Also, NE gets two forests and a BG.
North is in fact, very promising. I'm now thinking NE for the settler; that would give an excellent chance for 3 to 4 settler factories:
Also, NE gets two forests and a BG.
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
I'm thinking you might be light on shields for 4 settler factories in that area, but you should be able to getmultiple worker factories up as well as settlers.
I think red dot, directly south of the start (NE of green dot) and either SE or NE of green dot would work well. You'd probably get 4 on the river and one on yellow dot - actually, I would probably go further out on yellow dot and toss another one in there for the 6th cow once you switch to republic. Yoiu should be able to get3 settler/3 worker factories out of that in republc, assuming you have enough BG's/forest/hills, of course.
good luck!!
I think red dot, directly south of the start (NE of green dot) and either SE or NE of green dot would work well. You'd probably get 4 on the river and one on yellow dot - actually, I would probably go further out on yellow dot and toss another one in there for the 6th cow once you switch to republic. Yoiu should be able to get3 settler/3 worker factories out of that in republc, assuming you have enough BG's/forest/hills, of course.
good luck!!
Now, I really wasn't that optimistic. After all, my starting landmass turned out to be a very tall, but skinny island. The food bonuses and shields ended up to be good (I think I have 9 cattle and a few wheats, and a few fish). This got me a fairly fast start of 25 some cities by 1000 BC. It would have been more (considering the 4 settler factories I got) if the landmass was shaped better.
Unfortunately I didn't end up with horses or iron, or any luxuries for that matter, but I found some on an uncolonized island a little bit away, so hopefully I get to them first.
I did manage to contact Korea, Byzantine, Babylon, and Greece so far. I began to buy their gold with my GPT as often as I could.
And I kept research Writing at 50 turns. This took very long, but I got there. Much to my happiness, Korea didn't have Writing. This made things a little easier for me in 530 BC...
Therefore, I ended up caught up on tech with the exception of Monarchy and The Republic (couldn't buy it from Greece @ 1st). 1309 gold and +16 gpt, plus 30 cities with a few more to come.
It's going to be a tough game... no idea if I can win or not. So naturally I'll try.
Unfortunately I didn't end up with horses or iron, or any luxuries for that matter, but I found some on an uncolonized island a little bit away, so hopefully I get to them first.
I did manage to contact Korea, Byzantine, Babylon, and Greece so far. I began to buy their gold with my GPT as often as I could.
And I kept research Writing at 50 turns. This took very long, but I got there. Much to my happiness, Korea didn't have Writing. This made things a little easier for me in 530 BC...
Therefore, I ended up caught up on tech with the exception of Monarchy and The Republic (couldn't buy it from Greece @ 1st). 1309 gold and +16 gpt, plus 30 cities with a few more to come.
It's going to be a tough game... no idea if I can win or not. So naturally I'll try.
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
well, it looks like you have a couple of nice islands there to colonize!!
Too bad the home island isn't a bit bigger, though.
Too bad the home island isn't a bit bigger, though.
Conclusion:
The game was very interesting (and a good way to get back into Sid), however, I do not really feel it can be won anymore. The AI is split: Have and Have Nots. Some AIs have it all, lots of cities, lots of techs (30 bc and Astronomy, Gunpowder, etc.). Others only have 10 to 20 cities, plus their free tech as a result of me gifting them into the Middle Ages.
Therefore, trading is really impossible. I need Republic to get going, but that alone is very expensive amongst the civs who do have it. None of the 'backwards' civs are doing anything. No trades to be made to get me anywhere. Most of my gpt is spent on buying gold and luxuries that I need to sustain my empire. All the civs I gifted in the MA even got the same free tech. I find myself in a position where even getting to Knights will be expensive, let alone producing and upgrading all the horsemen. I'm really at a loss to as to what to do when this happens, because some games it does, and others it doesn't.
Is this just an unfortunate thing that happens a lot, or somehow my own error??? Likely both, but in any case, the key is persistance for these games, try and try until you find the perfect one. Through this, I can learn and improve. I feel that I didn't really make any significant errors in this game, it just didn't work out.
So signing off on this one, but not on this idea, I have nearly 500 more maps from Mapfinder as it is.
-Elear
(p.s. - 6 cattle seems to be cursed. I found another map with 6 cattle within 7 tiles of the start, and 4 of them on potential freshwater spots. It was a really bad position in the end, with almost no room to expand properly. Irony.
)
The game was very interesting (and a good way to get back into Sid), however, I do not really feel it can be won anymore. The AI is split: Have and Have Nots. Some AIs have it all, lots of cities, lots of techs (30 bc and Astronomy, Gunpowder, etc.). Others only have 10 to 20 cities, plus their free tech as a result of me gifting them into the Middle Ages.
Therefore, trading is really impossible. I need Republic to get going, but that alone is very expensive amongst the civs who do have it. None of the 'backwards' civs are doing anything. No trades to be made to get me anywhere. Most of my gpt is spent on buying gold and luxuries that I need to sustain my empire. All the civs I gifted in the MA even got the same free tech. I find myself in a position where even getting to Knights will be expensive, let alone producing and upgrading all the horsemen. I'm really at a loss to as to what to do when this happens, because some games it does, and others it doesn't.
Is this just an unfortunate thing that happens a lot, or somehow my own error??? Likely both, but in any case, the key is persistance for these games, try and try until you find the perfect one. Through this, I can learn and improve. I feel that I didn't really make any significant errors in this game, it just didn't work out.
So signing off on this one, but not on this idea, I have nearly 500 more maps from Mapfinder as it is.
-Elear
(p.s. - 6 cattle seems to be cursed. I found another map with 6 cattle within 7 tiles of the start, and 4 of them on potential freshwater spots. It was a really bad position in the end, with almost no room to expand properly. Irony.
)AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
I don't know, myself. I remember that moonsinger once said that she had bad luck with starts like that.
Indeed, she said that awhile ago.
And I tend to agree with her, I've had a really bad time with multiple cattle at the very start.
Chamnix, what do you think? I tried your 2 cattle Deity milk run start and didn't really like it, but you did win with it.
I only had 2 cows at the start of that game? I typically run MapFinder looking for 2 cows and a river, but there are often more than 2 cows nearby, and I would have thought I'd favor one of those starts.
I think what happened that game was that it was around my 100th or 101st start. I had been determined to get an SGL with Writing for the Pyramids after a minimum run, and I played 100 (or maybe 99) starts without getting a single one. At that point, I was so sick of playing the first 50 turns over and over that I decided I was just going to finish the next remotely playable map I found.
In any case, deity is usually winnable even with "only" 2 cows. Sid is a different world. You definitely want at least 2-3, but I think there are other map characteristics that are probably more important - things like the AI not being able to contact one another too much early while the player accumulates lots of contacts, having a first opponent on your landmass who lacks iron and another rival on the same landmass who can help you, and having relatively well-balanced AI so that none of them gets too strong and runs away with the game.
I think what happened that game was that it was around my 100th or 101st start. I had been determined to get an SGL with Writing for the Pyramids after a minimum run, and I played 100 (or maybe 99) starts without getting a single one. At that point, I was so sick of playing the first 50 turns over and over that I decided I was just going to finish the next remotely playable map I found.
In any case, deity is usually winnable even with "only" 2 cows. Sid is a different world. You definitely want at least 2-3, but I think there are other map characteristics that are probably more important - things like the AI not being able to contact one another too much early while the player accumulates lots of contacts, having a first opponent on your landmass who lacks iron and another rival on the same landmass who can help you, and having relatively well-balanced AI so that none of them gets too strong and runs away with the game.
True, yet it seems to get all of those at once is nearly impossible. I sympathize completely with you, because each day I'll open up C3C, go to my Sid folder, and start going through each of the hundreds of saves. I'll do the exact same thing in each one, and it's so incredibly boring, that by the time I get to the right map, I may mess it up. 
And actually, I think you had 4 cattle in all that were in decent range, but I was more implying as for the relative lack of space to expand. That makes sense though.
And actually, I think you had 4 cattle in all that were in decent range, but I was more implying as for the relative lack of space to expand. That makes sense though.
