Taliban-American Peace Deal

[FriendlyFire]

Again, look at every previous U.S. President from FDR to Obama and you'll see my point. But who am I kidding? I've learned the hard way that comparative thinking has tragically died in the parlance, and only literalistic, single-context points that serve the speakers' narrative, even by utter distortion, are the way of things - along other tragic casualties of debating techniques. RIP sane and rational discourse on affairs...

Really ? We just had GWBush and you think he is the same as Obama ?
Obama was a dissapointment but jesus christ why did you have to elect Trump.

 

[Patine]

Really ? We just had GWBush and you think he is the same as Obama ?
Obama was a dissapointment but jesus christ why did you have to elect Trump.

For crying out loud, my point is completely over your head, or you're deliberately ignoring it to make your obtuse and flawed arguments. I think what I've said is quite self-explanatory, and you're just quibbling, splitting hairs - or maybe in utter denial at how much of Bush's military agendas Obama just quietly carried on while he was excoriated more publicly for other things.

And why are you accusing ME of electing Trump? Canadian citizens like me don't get to vote in U.S. Presidential Elections, and, at the time of the election, I made vary clear that, if I could have voted, I would have made either made a protest vote for Rocky De La Fuente or a cheeky write-in, because both Clinton and Trump, as well as Johnson, Stein, Castle, De La Riva, and McMullin were all such abysmal candidates - a real horrid election all around.

 

[Moriarte]

For crying out loud, my point is completely over your head, or you're deliberately ignoring it to make your obtuse and flawed arguments. I think what I've said is quite self-explanatory, and you're just quibbling, splitting hairs - or maybe in utter denial at how much of Bush's military agendas Obama just quietly carried on while he was excoriated more publicly for other things.

And why are you accusing ME of electing Trump? Canadian citizens like me don't get to vote in U.S. Presidential Elections, and, at the time of the election, I made vary clear that, if I could have voted, I would have made either made a protest vote for Rocky De La Fuente or a cheeky write-in, because both Clinton and Trump, as well as Johnson, Stein, Castle, De La Riva, and McMullin were all such abysmal candidates - a real horrid election all around.

I believe FF was appealing to Jesus. It is, however, unclear, whether he touches on Christ as a mere 1 man 1 vote or rather accuses him of rigging entire US election.

 

[Patine]

I believe FF was appealing to Jesus. It is, however, unclear, whether he touches on Christ as a mere 1 man 1 vote or rather accuses him of rigging entire US election.

There is, actually, not a single verse in the whole Bible that endorses democracy, modern constitutional government, or Enlightenment-era "natural human rights," - whatever Tom Delay and others who say the "U.S. Constitution was written by God," and the Bill of Rights - including the right to bear arms and freedom of religion, no less - are given by God himself and are above Government to remove or meddle with. All of the governments mentioned in the Bible, including the ones ruling the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah, are VERY absolutist, despotic, and old school.

 

[Berzerker]

Really ? We just had GWBush and you think he is the same as Obama ?
Obama was a dissapointment but jesus christ why did you have to elect Trump.

Bush: Afghanistan and Iraq
Obama: Libya and Syria
Trump: got stuck with all 4

 

[Camikaze]

What do you mean?

The Taliban tends to cross over into Tajikistan, rather than keeping itself restricted to Afghanistan. The Taliban being in charge of Afghanistan creates problems for the region; it isn't hermetically sealed off from the rest of the world.

 

[Estebonrober]

Bush: Afghanistan and Iraq
Obama: Libya and Syria
Trump: got stuck with all 4

Puhlease. . ..

After all, this country’s military uniquely has a continent-wide Africa Command (aka AFRICOM), founded in 2007. As Nick Turse has often written for TomDispatch, that command now has its troops, thousands of them, its planes, and other equipment spread across the continent, north to south, east to west — air bases, drone bases, garrisons, outposts, staging areas, you name it. Meanwhile, AFRICOM’s outgoing commanding general, Thomas Waldhauser, only recently told Congress why it’s bound to be a forever outfit — because, shades of the Cold War, the Ruskies are coming! (“Russia is also a growing challenge and has taken a more militaristic approach in Africa.”)

And honestly, 600-odd words in, this wasn’t meant to be a piece about either Somalia or Africa. It was meant to be about those U.S. wars being off the charts, about how the Pentagon now feeds eternally at the terror trough, al-Shabaab being only a tiny part of the slop it regularly digests. So, for the seven of you still reading, let me change the subject to something a little more appealingly — to quote a well-known authority — “ridiculous” when it comes to American war.

https://fpif.org/trump-is-expanding-americas-wars-not-ending-them/

For those of us actually paying attention your peacenik Trump is a total fabrication of libertarians in the US. Its preposterous.

 

[Patine]

Puhlease. . ..

After all, this country’s military uniquely has a continent-wide Africa Command (aka AFRICOM), founded in 2007. As Nick Turse has often written for TomDispatch, that command now has its troops, thousands of them, its planes, and other equipment spread across the continent, north to south, east to west — air bases, drone bases, garrisons, outposts, staging areas, you name it. Meanwhile, AFRICOM’s outgoing commanding general, Thomas Waldhauser, only recently told Congress why it’s bound to be a forever outfit — because, shades of the Cold War, the Ruskies are coming! (“Russia is also a growing challenge and has taken a more militaristic approach in Africa.”)

And honestly, 600-odd words in, this wasn’t meant to be a piece about either Somalia or Africa. It was meant to be about those U.S. wars being off the charts, about how the Pentagon now feeds eternally at the terror trough, al-Shabaab being only a tiny part of the slop it regularly digests. So, for the seven of you still reading, let me change the subject to something a little more appealingly — to quote a well-known authority — “ridiculous” when it comes to American war.

https://fpif.org/trump-is-expanding-americas-wars-not-ending-them/

For those of us actually paying attention your peacenik Trump is a total fabrication of libertarians in the US. Its preposterous.

But again, like @FriendlyFire, you're focusing on Trump in a void to make your point. The point being made, which, you, and he can't seem to grasp, is that all previous U.S. Presidents from FDR to Obama have been actively involved in MORE hawkish military interventionism. I didn't say Trump was a peaceful, pacificistic non-interventionist. This is comparative thinking here, not single-context points.

 

[Berzerker]

For those of us actually paying attention your peacenik Trump is a total fabrication of libertarians in the US. Its preposterous.

As opposed to your fabrication libertarians think Trump is a peacenik?

 

[FriendlyFire]

Bush: Afghanistan and Iraq
Obama: Libya and Syria
Trump: got stuck with all 4

Complains that Iraq was never about seizing Oil
Ignors Trump publicly announcing that the US have seizing Syrian Oil fields

 

[Berzerker]

I complained invading Iraq was never about seizing oil? What does that have to do with Syrian oil? Trump didn't invade either country, that was Bush and Obama.

 

[Estebonrober]

But again, like @FriendlyFire, you're focusing on Trump in a void to make your point. The point being made, which, you, and he can't seem to grasp, is that all previous U.S. Presidents from FDR to Obama have been actively involved in MORE hawkish military interventionism. I didn't say Trump was a peaceful, pacificistic non-interventionist. This is comparative thinking here, not single-context points.

Ok sure? I guess I'll give this to you, idk drastically expanding covert no accountable war actions across africa and the mideast does not seem peaceful to me and it lacks any accountability. So honestly its a tough call which is worse.

 

[Estebonrober]

As opposed to your fabrication libertarians think Trump is a peacenik?

Ok well you seem to act like it.

 

[Patine]

Ok sure? I guess I'll give this to you, idk drastically expanding covert no accountable war actions across africa and the mideast does not seem peaceful to me and it lacks any accountability. So honestly its a tough call which is worse.

A military presence at ready to move in much of Africa is a different thing than actual, battlefield, military intervention - of which the U.S. is only involved in Libya and Somalia in that way on the African Continent - and even so, U.S. and other NATO nations' presence in Somalia has greatly dwindled over the last six-ten years to be taken up by African Union forces. There are not even nearly enough military wars and conflicts currently going on on the African Continent to be involved in to make the claim you've made credible

 

[FriendlyFire]

I complained invading Iraq was never about seizing oil? What does that have to do with Syrian oil? Trump didn't invade either country, that was Bush and Obama.

So when Trump says "Were keeping the oil. We have the oil"
That dosnt count ? because Obama started the war in Syria and then Trump just Seized Syrias Oil and that OK ?
This is GOOD ?
You support Trump seizing Syrias Oil ?
If Trump seizes Syrias Oil dosnt that mean Trump invaded Syria for the OIl ?

U.S. President Donald Trump might like to claim that the United States still has a hand in the region’s oil sector “in a meeting with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, he noted
We’re keeping the oil. We have the oil. The oil is secure.”
https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/11/15/trump-keeping-iraq-oil-russia-leading-middle-east/

 

[Estebonrober]

A military presence at ready to move in much of Africa is a different thing than actual, battlefield, military intervention - of which the U.S. is only involved in Libya and Somalia in that way on the African Continent - and even so, U.S. and other NATO nations' presence in Somalia has greatly dwindled over the last six-ten years to be taken up by African Union forces. There are not even nearly enough military wars and conflicts currently going on on the African Continent to be involved in to make the claim you've made credible

Um it might not be Yemen level atrocities going on but I think you underestimate the "war on terror" in Africa.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/02/secret-war-africa-pentagon-664005

A spokesman for Africa Command declined to say which African states host teams under the authority, but former special operations officers have identified eight countries as current or recent sites of the surrogate programs. They include well-known combat zones like Somalia and Libya as well as more surprising sites for American-directed commando raids like Kenya, Tunisia, Cameroon, Mali and Mauritania — and Niger, where the October mission that ended in tragedy involved one of two units that Green Berets run in the country under the authority.

As the Pentagon scrambled last fall to explain what its fallen commandos had been doing in combat in an African country many Americans had never heard of, it initially withheld some key facts — including that a second team of special operations troops had been involved in the mission too.

 

[Berzerker]

Ok well you seem to act like it.

Quote me calling him a peacenik then

So when Trump says "Were keeping the oil. We have the oil"
That dosnt count ? because Obama started the war in Syria and then Trump just Seized Syrias Oil and that OK ?
This is GOOD ?
You support Trump seizing Syrias Oil ?
If Trump seizes Syrias Oil dosnt that mean Trump invaded Syria for the OIl ?

Trump didn't invade Syria

 

[Patine]

So when Trump says "Were keeping the oil. We have the oil"
That dosnt count ? because Obama started the war in Syria and then Trump just Seized Syrias Oil and that OK ?
This is GOOD ?
You support Trump seizing Syrias Oil ?
If Trump seizes Syrias Oil dosnt that mean Trump invaded Syria for the OIl ?

Um it might not be Yemen level atrocities going on but I think you underestimate the "war on terror" in Africa.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/02/secret-war-africa-pentagon-664005

A spokesman for Africa Command declined to say which African states host teams under the authority, but former special operations officers have identified eight countries as current or recent sites of the surrogate programs. They include well-known combat zones like Somalia and Libya as well as more surprising sites for American-directed commando raids like Kenya, Tunisia, Cameroon, Mali and Mauritania — and Niger, where the October mission that ended in tragedy involved one of two units that Green Berets run in the country under the authority.

As the Pentagon scrambled last fall to explain what its fallen commandos had been doing in combat in an African country many Americans had never heard of, it initially withheld some key facts — including that a second team of special operations troops had been involved in the mission too.

But again, your arguments are based solely on Trump in a void, whereas I'm referring to him comparatively to past Presidents. You're not even addressing or countering my argument, remotely, at all, because you refuse to address the COMPARATIVE element that is essential to the statement I made that you claim is incorrect.

 

[Estebonrober]

But again, your arguments are based solely on Trump in a void, whereas I'm referring to him comparatively to past Presidents. You're not even addressing or countering my argument, remotely, at all, because you refuse to address the COMPARATIVE element that is essential to the statement I made that you claim is incorrect.

Dear Lord I already said sure to this point. Yes both sides are bad bla bla bla. Its hopeless talking to you Patine. Its always this way with you "both sides" and "everyone but me is evil and stupid" and you lecture others about being alienating. lol

 

[Estebonrober]

Quote me calling him a peacenik then



Trump didn't invade Syria

Invert Patine's point to me towards yourself and that is why you give the impression that Trump is so great on foreign affairs.