Talk to me about Pericles

MaximumPain

Warlord
Joined
Apr 30, 2008
Messages
158
I plan on trying out Pericles and wanted to pass the time before I can play with a discussion of the strategy's people think work best with him. I currently play on prince at marathon speed and like standard sized continent or big and small maps with a few extra civs packed in for added pressure.

First of all Pericles is a Greek with the traits Philosophical (Great People birth rate increased 100 percent. Double production speed of University.)
and Creative (+2 culture per city. Double production speed of Library, Theater, and Odeon.)

These are two traits I am not used to playing being a big fan of Financial, Aggressive, Charismatic and Industrious. I tend to be an early wonder whore who fights short wars and builds lots of cottages. I want to learn the specialist economy and Pericles seems like a good candidate to work on it with.

The Greek UU is the Phalanx an Axeman replacement that requires Bronze or Iron Str 5 +50% vs. Melee Units +100% defense vs. Chariot. As I have never faces an AI chariot rush this unit does not look that good to me vs the AI as I dont see them using a lot of chariots but in an axeman rush they should at least provide some more great general points. On a side note I assume that the Philosophical trait does not count towards great generals because of the Imperialistic trait. I do like to fight a war with my UUs when I can to get the extra great general points and I like to make a healer unit with my first one. It seems to me that if an early ax rush is successful you don't get enough points for a general as the war is over to quickly but the points do add up for later. How do other people like to use the Phalanx?

As for the Odeon +3 culture +2 :) +1 :) per 20% culture rate Can turn 2 citizens into artist +1 :) from Hit Singles. It is a replacement for the Colosseum that adds culture and an ability to run great artists in addition to happiness. Im not a big user of the Colosseum in most games but this thing looks like a culture monster and could stack well with that Philosophical trait by running great artists. Im not a big fan of the culture win but Pericles seems well set up to go for it with his traits hurrying all those culture adding buildings and jacking up his science and great people rates should just compound that advantage. How do other people like to use the Odeon?

What I plan on doing early is to focus on getting that library up and running ASAP and getting my first great scientist so I can build the academy in my top commerce potential city. Is getting writing after my key worker techs but before bronze working a workable idea assuming I dont have an AI right on top of me?

Please share your thoughts and tactics on Pericles.

Thanks
 
Your final goal should be Farms + WS's + Scientist specialists. To do this the most critical techs,

1) Civil Service --- For chain irrigation
2) CoL --- Caste System to run unlimited scientists + 1 extra :hammers: for WS's
3) MC --- Enables WS's
4) Biology --- Incresed food from Farms
5) Communism --- To enable SP
6) Philosophy --- Pacifism

Remember WS's dont look that great initially but once you get all the techs / civics necessary they are way better than mines.

If you are running Caste System + have researched Guilds + Chemistry WS's are 5:hammers: tiles. If you adopt State Property (available with Communism) they also become food neutral, so in other words your plains tiles will net 5:hammers:+1:food: :eek:

You may want to grab the Mids so you can run Rep as early as possible. The Parthenon would be another good wonder to go for.

Important civics - Rep + Pacifism + CS

Settle all the GS's you get in the capital and build the oxford there. Cottage the Capital so that you get the maximum from Bueracracy.

What i am describing to you is basically how to leverage the philosophical trait and run a specialist heavy economy.

have a look at the last HUI game i played if you want to see this in action.
 
Depends on the start, but in general, I'd vote him a strong leader. Especially for culture wins. Consider:

Creative now gives you double production speed on 3 culture buildings. You also get a couple extra artist slots from the odeon, so that means you really don't need an early caste to run artists for the culture win. And Phil is also a top culture trait. Even if not gunning for the culture victory, the cheap odeon, cheap library, cheap theatre, and being creative means you'll get lots of culture to fight border wars.

That being said, he's also good for other things. The Phalanx is so-so. It means that you don't need to worry about early spearmen to counter chariots, you can just go in with phalanxes. Not a big deal, but in certain circumstances, could be crucial.

Also, double speed library + phil = early GS. That means either an early academy for a tech boost, early settling to help a REX, or an early bulb of philosophy (heck, if you have a good map, you can probably academy the first one and still be able to bulb phil with your second scientist).

But in general, it depends on the map. If you get land that calls for cottages, then cottage it up and use the traits as bonuses. If land calls for specialists, then farm and run specialists.

Otherwise, I wouldn't delay bronze working. It's very important for early chopping, early slaving, and early copper (especially with an axe UU). I'd plan techs as worker techs - BW - AH (which might fall under worker techs) - writing in general, but obviously it depends on the map (maybe a detour to sailing/masonry for the great lighthouse). I'd also get away from having any "habits" like early wonder building. They're useful in some circumstances, but you need to know when to build wonders, when to build axes, and when to build settlers.
 
i suggest building every wonder associated with ancient greece which is quite a few so you will need at least one city aiming for great engineers and two for production which means low army and low city amount.

temple of artemis, and oracle for metalcasting and collosus is a given parthenon and statue of zeus next -which means writing is a key tech

"What I plan on doing early is to focus on getting that library up and running ASAP and getting my first great scientist so I can build the academy in my top commerce potential city"

you are close
ivory , marble, bronze over all other resources

this is the superior
 
do anything possible to secure the pyramids with pericles.
win the game in SE

cheap libraries, universities, more GS's make this a no brainer. Unless you're hurting for food resources, or even just one city with a huge food surplus, then pericles has the best SE or SSE economies in the game.

and early wars will net you an early GG.....on higher levels. That being said, I love to rush, but the axe rush on normal speed is just too slow. As a result, the phalanx is a unit is a great 'all round' defender in the early game, good barb defense, and reasonably good when mixed with cats for an early war.

The odeon is not the greatest support building for an SE, but with additional happiness to combat the emancipation penalty, you can't complain too much.

All in all, I find pericles one of the strongest leaders in the game....if you can get the pyramids.
 
i disagree

jared diamond is wrong and they should take away his pulitzer

the evidence is clear

geography (tiles) are but a grid for the ingenious to dance upon
 
What I plan on doing early is to focus on getting that library up and running ASAP and getting my first great scientist so I can build the academy in my top commerce potential city. Is getting writing after my key worker techs but before bronze working a workable idea assuming I dont have an AI right on top of me?

My guess is that that will commonly be reasonable.

The clear upside is a quicker research rate, and the earlier GP (presumably to establish an academy). The opportunity cost is really production - if you're building a library you aren't building half a settler, if you are running scientists you aren't working mines.

With lots of wood, plentiful city locations, and close competition for those locations, I'd probably run to bronzeworking first, and maybe even pick up another pre-requisite for Writing before researching it. When the nearby lands are jungles, when isolated, then I'd probably light the research rockets first.

Horses for courses.
 
Your final goal should be Farms + WS's + Scientist specialists. To do this the most critical techs,

1) Civil Service --- For chain irrigation
2) CoL --- Caste System to run unlimited scientists + 1 extra :hammers: for WS's
3) MC --- Enables WS's
4) Biology --- Incresed food from Farms
5) Communism --- To enable SP
6) Philosophy --- Pacifism

If you are running Caste System + have researched Guilds + Chemistry WS's are 5:hammers: tiles. If you adopt State Property (available with Communism) they also become food neutral, so in other words your plains tiles will net 5:hammers:+1:food: :eek:

Remember WS's dont look that great initially but once you get all the techs / civics necessary they are way better than mines.
I used to think workshops were bunk but after a Fredrick game I saw what they could do. I need to work on increasing the efficiency of them now and this looks like a good leader to try it with.

You may want to grab the Mids so you can run Rep as early as possible. The Parthenon would be another good wonder to go for.
I love the pyramids for representation (and police state if an AI pisses me off to much :lol: ) but don't like to risk it without stone or a lot of woods around. If I can get it I surely will. Same goes for the Oracle although I tend to have more trouble winning that race do to the need to get the religious techs to be able to build it.

Important civics - Rep + Pacifism + CS

Settle all the GS's you get in the capital and build the oxford there. Cottage the Capital so that you get the maximum from Bueracracy.
Nice I was going to ask about still running some cottages during a specialist economy and this answers my question quite nicely thanks :goodjob:.

What i am describing to you is basically how to leverage the philosophical trait and run a specialist heavy economy.

have a look at the last HUI game i played if you want to see this in action.
Exactly what I was looking for thanks. I will have a look at you game when I get home for some reason they wont let me play civ 4 at work :lol: something about actually working.

More responses to come thanks for your help and patience.
 
Depends on the start, but in general, I'd vote him a strong leader. Especially for culture wins. Consider:

Creative now gives you double production speed on 3 culture buildings. You also get a couple extra artist slots from the odeon, so that means you really don't need an early caste to run artists for the culture win. And Phil is also a top culture trait. Even if not gunning for the culture victory, the cheap odeon, cheap library, cheap theatre, and being creative means you'll get lots of culture to fight border wars.

That being said, he's also good for other things. The Phalanx is so-so. It means that you don't need to worry about early spearmen to counter chariots, you can just go in with phalanxes. Not a big deal, but in certain circumstances, could be crucial.

Also, double speed library + phil = early GS. That means either an early academy for a tech boost, early settling to help a REX, or an early bulb of philosophy (heck, if you have a good map, you can probably academy the first one and still be able to bulb phil with your second scientist).

But in general, it depends on the map. If you get land that calls for cottages, then cottage it up and use the traits as bonuses. If land calls for specialists, then farm and run specialists.

Otherwise, I wouldn't delay bronze working. It's very important for early chopping, early slaving, and early copper (especially with an axe UU). I'd plan techs as worker techs - BW - AH (which might fall under worker techs) - writing in general, but obviously it depends on the map (maybe a detour to sailing/masonry for the great lighthouse). I'd also get away from having any "habits" like early wonder building. They're useful in some circumstances, but you need to know when to build wonders, when to build axes, and when to build settlers.

Its rough not to find out where your Bronze is early plus the ability to chop is so crucial. As for slavery I can usually wait on that to whip a wonder or save myself from an early barbarian problem.

It was the quick library that attracted me to Pericles in the first place. I can see how that stacks with quick universities.

Ive never won by culture I may try that this time thanks for the tips.

Strategy depends usually much more on the map than on the leader.

Totally agree with that statement. I do like to have a general idea about what I can attempt with a given leader before I get into the game. In this case it will be important to find out about stone, marble, bronze, and happy resources before fully deciding on what wonders to attempt.

i suggest building every wonder associated with ancient greece which is quite a few so you will need at least one city aiming for great engineers and two for production which means low army and low city amount.

temple of artemis, and oracle for metalcasting and collosus is a given parthenon and statue of zeus next -which means writing is a key tech

you are close
ivory , marble, bronze over all other resources

this is the superior

You do know Im playing on Prince right? :lol:

Thats a lot of wonders to get rolling and doesn't even include the pyramids which I may try and get even without stone. I love the Oracle, and the Parthenon, Artemis and temple of Zeus are nice but thats already 4 wonders and were not even to the colossus yet... oh and the great library also looks nice. Hmm 7 wonders I dont think is doable I will see what the map gives me and maybe pick two to go for. I much prefer to be strong, have enough cities, and have my granaries and barracks built oh and enough workers so I can chop the few wonders I do decide to go for.

I think gold, sliver, and gems are real nice resources as well. As long as I get at least one happy resource I will be ok. Otherwise I may need to go take one from a weak neighbor.
 
§L¥ Gµ¥;8688364 said:
do anything possible to secure the pyramids with pericles.
win the game in SE

cheap libraries, universities, more GS's make this a no brainer. Unless you're hurting for food resources, or even just one city with a huge food surplus, then pericles has the best SE or SSE economies in the game.

and early wars will net you an early GG.....on higher levels. That being said, I love to rush, but the axe rush on normal speed is just too slow. As a result, the phalanx is a unit is a great 'all round' defender in the early game, good barb defense, and reasonably good when mixed with cats for an early war.

The odeon is not the greatest support building for an SE, but with additional happiness to combat the emancipation penalty, you can't complain too much.

All in all, I find pericles one of the strongest leaders in the game....if you can get the pyramids.

I play on marathon most of the time so the ax rush is a total possibility if I have a suitable victim. I am convinced to go for the pyramids REP is so nice with that +3 :science: per specialist and the free happiness.

Buildings like the odeon and other specialist buildings may allow me to go to emancipation due to the ability to run those artists in lieu of cast system. But that will cost a hammer per workshop so I will have to look at it when the time comes. I know myself and will probably not get around to building them as I dont usually build coliseums
 
My guess is that that will commonly be reasonable.

The clear upside is a quicker research rate, and the earlier GP (presumably to establish an academy). The opportunity cost is really production - if you're building a library you aren't building half a settler, if you are running scientists you aren't working mines.

With lots of wood, plentiful city locations, and close competition for those locations, I'd probably run to bronzeworking first, and maybe even pick up another pre-requisite for Writing before researching it. When the nearby lands are jungles, when isolated, then I'd probably light the research rockets first.

Horses for courses.

Good stuff and thanks for the distinction between when to go for the super early library and when to make sure I can chop. Mining is usually nice early as well at least if some gold or gems can be found or even a nice grass hill next to a river. Also the more I play the more and earlier I seem to chop.
 
I think the Pyramids is by far the most overrated wonder in the game. Yes Rep is nice, but at what expense? Pyramids without stone or Industrious trait is a definite NO imho.

That said, Pericles is a great leader. Creative/Philo can be very strong for economy, expansion and war, VERY versatile. Starting techs are slightly below average. The UB is amazing for 40 hammers. The UU is weak, the AI will likely acquire HAs very early on higher levels, so don't build Phalanxes to counter mounted units unless you enjoy flying by the seat of your pants. ;)

Strategy depends usually much more on the map than on the leader.

Well said!
 
Buildings like the odeon and other specialist buildings may allow me to go to emancipation due to the ability to run those artists in lieu of cast system.
If your intending to run a Representation 'SE' then why not put the Odeon and your Theatres to further use by using the culture slider to solve your emancipation unhappiness? In fact if your planning on a culture win anyway you would probably be best off doing this!
 
I love the pyramids for representation (and police state if an AI pisses me off to much :lol: ) but don't like to risk it without stone or a lot of woods around. If I can get it I surely will. Same goes for the Oracle although I tend to have more trouble winning that race do to the need to get the religious techs to be able to build it.

If you decide to run a specialist heavy economy, Rep can make a huge difference, and the Mids really is the key wonder, so if you do have a fair shot i would suggest you give it a go, on Prince even without stone if you chop like crazy i think it can be picked up.
Dont go for the Oracle, not worth the trouble.

I think the Pyramids is by far the most overrated wonder in the game. Yes Rep is nice, but at what expense? Pyramids without stone or Industrious trait is a definite NO imho.

Pyramids = Overrated - I agree to some extent. But if you were talkin of running a specialist heavy economy the difference that Pyramids make by allowing you to Run Rep through the game is just huge and it becomes an extremely important / powerful wonder, so if that's the plan and there are enough forests around and the game situation gives me half a chance at the mids i will definitely have a go with or without the stone.
 
I think the Pyramids is by far the most overrated wonder in the game. Yes Rep is nice, but at what expense? Pyramids without stone or Industrious trait is a definite NO imho.

they usually aren't even possible without one of those factors or the other. However, with pericles, I definitely consider settling a second or 3rd crappy city to secure stone and the 'myds, if the map dictates it's a feasible option.
 
I seriously jones for the pyramids both for the Rep bonus and the early great engineer it can give you. Im going to post a save for this and see what I can do.

Settings Prince, Marathon speed, Average size, Big and Small, 10 AIs, all victory conditions on, no other special settings (events are on).

Still having trouble getting screen shots to post Ill have to work on that.

Spoiler :
Looking good to settle in place with lots of food and woods. I like to have some early happy and commerce if I can but that start looks good. I want to try for the culture victory but plan on having a look around before I settle on it.


I will play this out to 1000 BC and post my comments and save for more expert advise. Thanks for all your comments so far.

If you want to shadow it no problem just post your comments in spoilers if you get to 1000 BC before I do. I wont be back on until after noon and probably wont get the save played out until tonight some time.

Thanks again all.
 
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