tao_1 vanilla emperor training/succession game

IBT- Barb attacks and he loses, Iroqoius contact for being in their territory

6 2350- finnished warrior, move settler/warrior, continue exploring in Iroqouis

IBT- 2 other barbs attack and both die

7 2310- Move settler/warrior, continue exploring

IBT- nothing

8 2270- warrior done and moved to worker,start settler and mm to finnish in 5 and rome grows in 5, move settler/warrior, exploring

IBT-nothing

9 2230- Veii is founded in forest north of cow, exploring

IBT- nothing

10 2150- exploring warrior being built in veii

And the save...
View attachment 104162
 
tao said:
Good turns.

Who's up next?
Formula51 (At Bat)
tao (On Deck)
BeefBayford
CommandoBob
Inkoate
choleric (Just Played)
 
At this point we have two cities, Rome and Veii. Veii is making a warrior and Rome is a making worker or settler (I cannot open the save from where I am). We learn to Write in about 17 turns or so.

Is Rome ready to become a settler factory for Formula51?
 
CommandoBob said:
Is Rome ready to become a settler factory for Formula51?
Did you read the settler factory article I referenced in post #23? What is your conclusion?
 
tao said:
Did you read the settler factory article I referenced in post #23? What is your conclusion?
Well, it is time for me to force myself to understand how settler factories work. I have put off learning it for myself and have relied on the experienced of others. Time to see it for myself. Here goes.

Below is the current Roman Empire 2150 BC:


And the inner workings of Rome at 2150 BC:


In two turns Rome will grow to size 6, produce a settler and decrease to size 4. The article mentioned in Post #23, Spotting Settler Factories by RFHolloway states this as requirements for a six turn settler factory:
Spotting Settler Factories said:
As stated above you need 2 surplus food for a six turn factory (e.g. an irrigated wheat on grassland on its own), and

4 production at your initial level and 5 at one pop higher, plus a spare forest, or
5 production at both levels.

At Population 4 Rome could do this:

and produce +4 fpt and +4spt. This would continue for 3 turns. On the third turn Rome would grow to size 5.

And at Population 5 Rome could do this:


According to the article, and referring to a four turn factory that grows on turns 2 and 4:
Your shields will then be 6 on the first turn, 6 on the second turn, plus the extra 2 from the newly produced citizen, 7 on the third turn, and 7 plus 2 on the final turn.
I assume the same would be true of a six turn factory growing on turns 3 and 6.

If this is true then this is what happens to our growth and production:


Turn 1: +4 food, +4 shield; Total of 04 food and 04 shield.
Turn 2: +4 food, +4 shield; Total of 08 food and 08 shield.
Turn 3: +4 food, +4 shield; Total of 12 food and 12 shield.
IBT Population grows from 4 to 5, +2 shield from BG; Total of 0 food and 14 shield.
Turn 4: +6 food, +5 shield; Total of 06 food and 19 shield.
Turn 5: +6 food, +5 shield; Total of 12 food and 24 shield.
IBT: Population grows from 5 to 6, +2 shield from forest; Total of 0 food and 26 shield;
Turn 6: +? food, +5 shield; Total of ?? food and 31 shield.
Settler produced; population reduced to 4.

So, it does appear that Rome could become a settler factory for Formula51.
 
CommandoBob said:
So, it does appear that Rome could become a settler factory for Formula51.
Yes. But it would be much better to have a 4 turn settler factory than a 6 turn one. Don't you agree?

Let's try it starting with pop 4:
  • +5 food per turn: game, wines, and city center +2+1+2 = +5 :)
  • 30 shields
    turn 1: 2mbg + city center = 5
    turn 2: 2mbg + city center + 2 forest on growth = 7 (total 12)
    turn 3: 2mbg + 1 mg + city center = 6 (total 18)
    turn 3: 2mbg + 1 mg + city center + 2 forest on growth= 6 (total 26) :(
Conclusion: it does not work starting at pop 4.

Let's try try again starting with pop 5:
  • +5 food per turn: game, wines, and city center +2+1+2 = +5 :)
  • 30 shields
    turn 1: 2mbg + 1 mg + city center = 6
    turn 2: 2mbg + 1 mg + city center + 2 forest on growth = 8 (total 14)
    turn 3: 2mbg + 2 mg + city center = 7 (total 25)
    turn 3: 2mbg + 2 mg + city center + 2 forest on growth= 9 (total 30) :)
Bingo. :goodjob:

Important note 1: Set the city governor to emphasize production: yes; emphazise food: no.

Important note 2: This only works because Rome is on fresh water and can grow to pop 7 on the last turn, thou the growth is immediately converted into the settler reducing pop again to 5. It would not work, if Rome wasn't on a lake or river.

Conclusion: We need to improve more tiles to get the factory at optimum speed. We might want to build a 2nd worker soon to support Veii and let this city concentrate on military.
 
tao said:
Yes. But it would be much better to have a 4 turn settler factory than a 6 turn one. Don't you agree?
Agree indeed! :goodjob:

I was trying to get a settler factory ASAP and the best we could do ASAP is a 6 turn factory. But we could do it, which was what I was investigating and learning.

I did not take the next step and ask this question: Since we can make Rome a settler factory, is this way the best way to do so? And of course, 4 turns is faster and better than 6 turns.

Good answer and good explanation, thanks, tao.

(note to self: think out of the box!)
 
tao said:
We might want to build a 2nd worker soon to support Veii and let this city concentrate on military.
You want Veii to concentrate on military?
 
CommandoBob said:
You want Veii to concentrate on military?
Actually no - at least in the long run it will make a 2nd worker/settler factory. But for now we need units and Veil is the obvious city to build them.
 
tao said:
Good turns.

Who's up next?
CommandoBob said:
Formula51 (At Bat)
tao (On Deck)
BeefBayford
CommandoBob
Inkoate
choleric (Just Played)
This was four days ago, back on Nov 17.

My thoughts: if Formula51 does not claim the game by midnight of November 21, server time (GMT -6), then I think that tao should go ahead and play his turns.

I will pm Formula51 to give him a chance to respond.
 
I won't find the time to play before tomoorow evening German time.
 
0: 2150bc: Let's have a look: we need 9 shields to complete the settler. Two we will gain on growth. Set the city governor to emphasize production! Thus we need 7 shields in 2 turns, i.e. 3+4. Thus I mm to work the roaded bg and a lake tile gaining +3 commerce. We can reduce lux to 20% and will grow this turn. We make +7g instead of +4.

1: 2110bc: mm Rome again (work 3 lake tiles) to grow in 2 and build settler in 2. Set 30% lux again; keep +7 gold because of the higher pop.

IBT we see an Iroquois warrior east of Veii.

2: 2070bc: rats: miscalculated because the worker finished the mine and we get 1 more shield finishing the settler. Pop down to 4; shoild have checked the worker status. I decide to build a worker next to improve the tiles we work; mm again away from forest for growth in 1. Lux down to 10%. Worker and warrior move to next bg.
Southern warrior moves south next to Iroquois town Allegheny.

The settler heads to the coastal tile N of the eastern cow. The Iro warrior probably has killed any barbs previously in that area, but since Veii finishes a warrior next turn, the current one goes east to join our settler.

IBT another barb approaches from the west

3: 2030bc: Veii b warrior s next; worker starts mine, warrior escort fortifies. Explorer goes S on hill and sees orange border. mm Rome to grow and build worker in 2 turns; set 20% lux. Settler and warrior walk.

As the barb is next to our warrior/worker combo, look at the combat calculator:
- barb has 16% chance to win attacking our fortified warrior
- our warrior has 73% chance to win on attacking
Thus we wait.

We contact England: They know writing :( (we have 12 turns left), and bronze.
Iroquois know bronze, masonry, wheel. There is little we can do.

IBT barb attacks and dies. Another barb approaches Iro warrior in the east.

4: 1950bc: Rome builds worker starts next. mm to 4 shields, will gain final 2 on growth. Worker will road towards Veii. Settler reaches its settling position - there are wheat plus 2 fish north. Iro did not get writing yet.

IBT Iro warrior kills barb

5: 1910bc: worker2 starts road. Antium founded starts warrior. Explorer next to Hastings.

IBT Liz asks us to leave and we agree.

6: 1870bc: Rome b worker s settler; mm to lake for growth in 2. Veii b warrior s granary. worker3 starts road toward Antium.

7: 1830bc: workers work, explorer explores.

IBT barb approaches Antium from the south

8: 1790bc: mine completed; Rome will grow and build settler in 3. Explorer identifies York. Rome needs 30% lux.

IBT barb comes next to Antium blocking cow

9: 1750bc: mm Rome from forest to lake gaining 2 commerce. We have 18 shileds gaining 5 per turn. Final 2 will come on growth.

IBT barb attacks Antium and dies promoting our warrior to vet.

10: 1725bc: Antium b warrior s archer. I do not build barracks, because Antium is coastal and will build galleys later; thus barracks would be wasted. mm Antium to work the cow again, which was blocked last turn by the barb :goodjob:

This turn, England sold writing to Iroquois and we still need 5 turns :(

post turn thoughts
We still need 5 turns on writing. The big question is what to research afterwards. Obvious choice is mathematics, but on emperor the AIs will probably beat us again. That leaves map making in the hope to be the first to send out galleys -
maybe suicide galleys - and make contacts first allowing us to trade for all we need. Or we could do literature that is often neglected by the AIs and trade it to England and Iroquois for 3 or 4 techs.

I would build another warrior in Rome next to have another mp thus reducing the lux rate. And our settler factory needs another mine to become fully operational. mm to get as much commerce as possible!

BeefBayford (up next)
CommandoBob
Inkoate
choleric
Formula51 (not reporting - skipped)
tao (just played)
 

Attachments

  • tao1_1725bc.jpg
    tao1_1725bc.jpg
    83.6 KB · Views: 121
Sorry all I'm dropping out of all SG's. Don't have enough time to play Civ anymore, hopefully I'll be able to make my return to the game in a few weeks but until then, thanks for having me and adios!
 
That makes the new roster.

CommandoBob (up next)
Inkoate
choleric
Formula51 (not reporting - skipped)
tao (just played)

And if somebody wants to join us: I think we can use 1 or more new players.
 
I've got the save; will look at it tonight.
 
End of Previous Turnset Stats:

Science: Writing, 5 turns
Treasury: 142 gold, +8 gpt, 6.1.3
Trades:
Cities:
  • Rome (6) settler in 1, grows in 1, culture expansion 10
  • Veii (2) granary in 16, grows in 4, culture 0
  • Antium (1) archer in 10, grows in 3, culture 0

Military:
  • 07 warriors, 00 in production
  • 00 archers, 01 in production
  • 03 workers, 00 in production
  • 00 settlers, 01 in production


Allowed units 12; current units 10

[IBT]
Rome Settler -> Warrior, 2 turns.

01 1700 BC

Settler (Rome) to go southwest, west and west again to new city site on plains.
Worker on the far side of Lake Rome moves south to the grassland to mine and make road.
Warrior protecting Worker wakes and heads southwest to push back the fog.
Exploring Warrior finds London.
Worker on hill builds road.


Trading

[IBT]

02 1675 BC

Exploring Warrior wants to fully discover England before heading north. Moves south.
Worker completes road on flood plain, begins irrigation.
Worker begins mine southwest of Lake Rome.
Warrior moves southwest to city site.
Settler moves west onto city site.
MM Rome from 8 commerce to 11 commerce.
MM Veii from 3 commerce to 5 commerce. Granary goes from 14 to 21 turns. City still grows in 2.


Trading


[IBT]
England upset at our exploring warrior and kicks him out.
Barb on Horseback shows up next to our Warrior/Settler combo.
Rome Warrior -> Settler, 6 turns.

03 1650 BC

Found Cumae, Warrior in 5, grows in 10.
Exploring Warrior east into English lands.
Warrior (Rome) fortifies and makes people happy.
Warrior (Cumae) fortifies and waits to be attacked.
Reduce Lux slider to 20%.


Trading

[IBT]
England upset over warrior. We agree to move him.
Barb on Horseback beats our Warrior in Cumea. We lose 41 gold.


04 1625 BC

Exploring Warrior east toward York.
Worker buidling mine, stopped and move east away from bad guys.
Vet Warrior in Rome moved to where Worker was, heading to Cumea.
Cumea will probably be pillaged again.
Luxury slider back to 30%.


Trading
Check with MapStat. English are up BW, CB and Writing. Vikings have those and the Wheel and Masonry.
Will discuss trading when posting turn log.

[IBT]
Cumea ransacked again. We lose 34 gold.
Expected an attack on the warrior heading to Cumea, that was why I moved the worker to the east, in case the warrior lost the battle. Now, no attack.
We learn Writing. We like is so much we also decide to learn Literature.
We can establish embassies because we can write. Later. England's embassy cost 60 gold, Iroquois's cost 44 gold. Too much for right now.

05 1600 BC

Vet Warrior arrives in Cumea.
Worker head west to finish mines.
Exploring Warrior southeast.

Trading

[IBT]

Current Turnset Stats:

Science: Literature, 40 turns
Treasury: 112 gold, +10 gpt, 6.1.3
Trades:
Cities:
  • Rome (6) settler in 3, grows in 2, culture expansion 5
  • Veii (3) granary in 11, grows in 9, culture 0
  • Antium (2) archer in 3, grows in 8, culture 0
  • Cumea (1) warrior in 3, grows in 8, culture 0

Military:
  • 07 warriors, 01 in production
  • 00 archers, 01 in production
  • 03 workers, 00 in production
  • 00 settlers, 01 in production


Allowed units 16; current units 10



And the map for the Red Roman Empire:


Cannot attach save to this post at this time. Tried twice and internet session froze.
Edit: Got the file attached.
 
Things to discuss:

What to learn next and at what rate? Current choice is Literature at 10% (40 turns)

Do we want to trade gold for techs from the Iroquois and English?

Do we need to establish embassies right away or could that wait until the next full turnset?
 
CommandoBob said:
What to learn next and at what rate? Current choice is Literature at 10% (40 turns)

Do we want to trade gold for techs from the Iroquois and English?

Do we need to establish embassies right away or could that wait until the next full turnset?

My choice for research would be map making. We may not be first to learn it, but if we pay close attention, we may trade for it once the AIs learn it. And map trading usually favors the cunning human. And as humans, we can send out suicide galleys if necessary - something the AIs never do. Having more contacts will lower tech costs and allow more trading opportunities including contact trading.

As to the research rate: as fast as possible. But look at our cities: the great weakness we have is too few workers. We work a lot(!) of unimproved tiles. Thus our commerce (reseach), production and growth is slow. Rome should build about 3 more workers after the settler. At least. And of course we need to explore the unknown territories. We need more luxuries (hopefully) to lower our lux tax.

Rome needs another mp.

Once Veii has its granary, we will really start rapid expansion, but we need veteran units to accompany the settlers. I would build barracks in Cumae after the warrior.

Embassies: I would do it in Salamanca as it is cheaper and allows to monitor whether there is a war between England and Iroquois.
 
tao said:
My choice for research would be map making.

Rome should build about 3 more workers after the settler. At least.
Rome needs another mp.

Once Veii has its granary, we will really start rapid expansion, but we need veteran units to accompany the settlers. I would build barracks in Cumae after the warrior.

Embassies: I would do it in Salamanca as it is cheaper and allows to monitor whether there is a war between England and Iroquois.

To Do List

We will learn to read maps.

We will build an embassy with the Purple People.

We will research Map Making as quickly as possible, perhaps even having -1 gpt(?), which is why we would build the embassy first.

Rome makes a settler and then produces workers for the rest of this turnset and all of the next turnset (adding on to what you said).

Veii makes granary and then makes settlers.

Cumae makes barracks after this warrior. The Cumae warrior goes to Rome to MP.
 
Top Bottom