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TCIT - AD - Sun, July 29th, 2:00pm EDT (1800GMT)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Democracy Game II' started by Falcon02, Jul 26, 2007.

  1. Falcon02

    Falcon02 General

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    3,100
    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    Posted as a citizen

    Instructions as of 1714 GMT - 46 minutes to turnchat.
     
  2. Falcon02

    Falcon02 General

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    3,100
    Location:
    Maryland, USA
  3. Falcon02

    Falcon02 General

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    3,100
    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    Turnchat ended after just one turn...

    Made contact with Incans.

    They do not need Philosophy or Education, and do not need an prerequisite so it would appear they have both techs.

    Per the Chieftain's Instructions the chat was ended at this point.
     
  4. Falcon02

    Falcon02 General

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    3,100
    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    chat log (including much of the discussion after realizing the Incans had Education and Philosphy)

    Spoiler :

    Session Start: Sun Jul 29 09:49:58 2007
    Session Ident: #turnchat
    [09:49] * Now talking in #turnchat
    [09:49] * Topic is 'Turnchat 10PM PDT (1AM EDT, 0500 GMT)'
    [09:49] * Set by DaveShack on Tue Jul 24 22:15:56
    [09:49] * Chieftess sets mode: +v Falcon02
    [12:46] * dutchfire (dutchfire@19108886.17833c43.nb.home.nl) has joined #turnchat
    [12:46] * Chieftess sets mode: +v dutchfire
    [12:46] <dutchfire> hi
    [12:47] <Chieftess> hi
    [12:49] <Chieftess> BTW, that guilt/innocence poll is what it is -- no bugs or tampering.
    [12:49] <dutchfire> great
    [12:49] <dutchfire> checked DL's recently too?
    [12:50] <Chieftess> I believe TF's script can spot DLs in a poll along with the results - he made no mention of any.
    [12:51] <Chieftess> Just your regular Demogame users in that poll.
    [12:54] * dutchfire (dutchfire@19108886.17833c43.nb.home.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
    [13:00] * Tank (~Magic1@25a73dd4.3d716d1f.cablep.bezeqint.net) has joined #turnchat
    [13:00] * Chieftess sets mode: +v Tank
    [13:00] <Tank> Holla
    [13:00] * dutchfire (~evldrunen@19108886.17833c43.nb.home.nl) has joined #turnchat
    [13:00] * Chieftess sets mode: +v dutchfire
    [13:01] * dutchfire connection has dropped
    [13:02] <dutchfire> the TC will start in about an hour, won't it?
    [13:03] <Tank> It should start now
    [13:03] <Tank> 18:00GMT
    [13:03] <Tank> Oh wait
    [13:03] <Tank> Sorry, yeah, 1 hour
    [13:03] <Tank> DST
    [13:06] * Chieftess has no idea which timezone is what..
    [13:06] * Chieftess sets mode: +o dutchfire
    [13:06] <Chieftess> DF - you can change the turnchat title if you'd like.
    [13:08] <dutchfire> how? (I'm not really a mIRC guy, more a MSN guy :p)
    [13:08] <dutchfire> nevermind, I figured out
    [13:09] <Falcon02> on a side note it's currently 1708 GMT. So yes 1 hour to turnchat start
    [13:09] <Falcon02> got no instructions from Ordinary Guy yet though... I think he was assuming the chat would be delayed...
    [13:10] * dutchfire changes topic to 'Turnchat Sunday 29th of Juli 18.00 GMT 2.00 EDT'
    [13:11] <dutchfire> hmm, I suppose we could guide you through the TC for that Aimag, it shouldn't really be more than a couple of builds
    [13:12] <Falcon02> Also on a side note, if anyone is unsure of what the GMT time is there's a nice web clock which goes by GMT
    [13:12] <Falcon02> http://www.time.gov/timezone.cgi?UTC/s/0/java
    [13:12] <dutchfire> @falcon, you missed my instructions as a citizen about the tech poll
    [13:14] <Falcon02> added 'em
    [13:15] <Falcon02> kinda didn't include 'em at first since they were instructions as an individual citizen as such not really official.
    [13:15] <dutchfire> citizens can give instructions regarding polls AFAIK
    [13:18] <dutchfire> well, I'll just play some pbems before the TC starts
    [13:18] <Falcon02> still hardly seems official in my eyes. But in the end, it's a friendly reminder of an important poll to make sure the results of which are followed.
    [13:20] <Falcon02> I'm gonna go ahead and load up the save right now in preperation
    [13:20] <dutchfire> okay
    [13:21] <dutchfire> I'll see if I have some time to skim our laws to check if I recalled everything correctly
    [13:22] <Falcon02> anyway, your point was made, and regardless... the results of a poll must be followed
    [13:45] <Falcon02> *** 15 minutes to turnchat
    [13:50] <dutchfire> @Chieftess, DS is delaying the poll, but didn't TF check it already?
    [13:53] <Falcon02> *** 7 minutes to turnchat
    [13:55] <Chieftess> Yes, TF checked it.
    [13:55] <dutchfire> well, why is DS delaying it then? Is he just not up to date?
    [13:56] <Chieftess> Probably because it's a tie again.
    [13:57] <Chieftess> If the poll bug occurs in any other poll, I guess we can call it "Abstain's Revenge" or something.
    [13:58] * Chieftess just noticed that... the bug only made itself known after we did away with abstain. :hmm:
    [13:58] <Chieftess> Anyway, I've gtg.
    [13:58] <Chieftess> bye
    [13:58] <Falcon02> see ya
    [14:00] <Falcon02> *** Turnchat has stared
    [14:00] <Falcon02> started*
    [14:01] <Falcon02> EA: University (11) - Done
    [14:02] <Falcon02> Ainu: Library (3), Bank (20). Drop the "citizen" specialists. - Done, Turned one Citizen specialist into Merchant distributed rest on land
    [14:02] <Falcon02> Munich: Bank (6), Library. emphasize growth. Move citizen from plains forest to grass with hamlet. - Done
    [14:03] <Falcon02> Munich - new citizen on cottage - Growth Expected in 7 turns
    [14:03] <Falcon02> Berlin: Market (1), Library (5), National Epic. Drop the "citizen" specialists. - Done, NE not in queue yet, needs library to be finished first, Citizens specialists distributed on land
    [14:04] <Falcon02> Cologne: Market (9), Library - Done
    [14:04] <dutchfire> which cities instructions are missing? (nvm I'll check it myself)
    [14:05] <Falcon02> Riversight: Build anything that increases commerce or production or units that are needed. - Put Confusian Monastary in queue for now (current build, University, done in 5 turns)
    [14:05] <Falcon02> Thanks
    [14:05] <Falcon02> Cumae, Neapolis, Xanadu: Build anything that increases commerce - Checking....
    [14:06] <Falcon02> Cumae - Bank(15) in production, no change made
    [14:06] <dutchfire> some universities perhaps?
    [14:06] <Falcon02> Neapolis - Bank (23) in production, no change
    [14:07] <Tank> Open WroldBuilder and get all the techs...now
    [14:07] <dutchfire> okay, I'd say Coppertown: work the cottages, the grassland farm, the grassland forests, the mines, the cows, a plains forest, a scientist and an engineer
    [14:07] <Falcon02> Xanadu - Market (1) in production, added University (20) after Market
    [14:07] <dutchfire> and the watermills
    [14:08] <Falcon02> please hold it until I get the rest finished
    [14:08] <dutchfire> okay
    [14:09] <Falcon02> "DON'T let the cities go over their happiness/health cap (appiles especially to Xanadu)" - Will do my best, Xanadu made to stagnate, 3 turns from growth and passing Happiness limit
    [14:09] * DaveShack (~foo@3eb8f587.3af339a2.ar.comcast.net) has joined #turnchat
    [14:09] * Chieftess sets mode: +v DaveShack
    [14:09] * Mafioso sets mode: +o DaveShack
    [14:10] <Falcon02> Workers: Increase the yield of commerce/production/food, depending on the city. - Noted
    [14:10] <dutchfire> Hi Dave
    [14:11] <DaveShack> hi
    [14:11] <dutchfire> Chieftess said that TF's check on the polls was alright
    [14:11] <Falcon02> NOTA: Switch the Engineer specialist to a scientist, this will shave one turn off of Liberalism. After the university, switch to either Research or military units.
    [14:12] <DaveShack> one more thing needs to be checked
    [14:12] <Falcon02> NOTA - Done, added Knight and then Research into end of the queue
    [14:13] * Tank (~Magic1@25a73dd4.3d716d1f.cablep.bezeqint.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
    [14:13] <Falcon02> NOTB: Take the citizen off the grass mined hill and place him on the irrigated grass for growth. At growth, put the new citizen back on the grass mined hill. When the library is complete start a forge. Also, once the library is complete, reset the free specialist to a scientist. - Done Growth Expected in 7 turns
    [14:15] <Falcon02> Library expected in 3
    [14:16] * fed1943 (~fed1943@1c6ad229.3cbc6b2b.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #turnchat
    [14:16] <Falcon02> Orleans: After the forge, start on a university. Switch the priest specialist to a scientist.
    [14:16] * Chieftess sets mode: +v fed1943
    [14:16] <Falcon02> - Done
    [14:16] <fed1943> hi people
    [14:17] <dutchfire> hi
    [14:17] <Falcon02> Paris: After the library start on a university. Remove all merchant specialist except one. Place them on coastal tiles for both growth and commerce. - Done, can't add University to queue until Library finished, expected in 1 turn
    [14:18] <Falcon02> Growth expected in 2 turns, city will then reach Health limit
    [14:19] <Falcon02> Okay given city instructions completed
    [14:19] <Falcon02> now for the missing city instructions
    [14:20] <Falcon02> Also, Research changed to Democracy queue
    [14:20] <dutchfire> Coppertown: University, work the grassland farm, the cows, the mines, the watermills, the cottage, the grassland forests, a plains forest, a scientist, an engineer
    [14:20] <dutchfire> Rheims: Caravel, work cows, mine, 1 grassland forest, cottages, 3 sea tiles, merchant
    [14:20] <dutchfire> Marseilles: Courthouse, engineer, plantation, 2 seatiles
    [14:20] <dutchfire> PisaeLibrary, farm, plantation, engineer, forest (2x), horses, mine
    [14:20] <dutchfire> I had them ready :D
    [14:21] <Falcon02> Nationalism (6) -> Constitution (9) -> Democracy (12)
    [14:21] <Falcon02> figured you would
    [14:21] <dutchfire> nothing official though, just my opinions, feel free to change
    [14:21] <Falcon02> Yeah I understand
    [14:22] <Falcon02> past time, and you're not OrdinaryGuy
    [14:24] <Falcon02> Coppertown - Done, left it pretty much the same
    [14:25] <Falcon02> moved a grassland forest to the unworked cottage
    [14:25] * DaveShack is now known as DS_away
    [14:26] <Falcon02> Rhiems - Done, left the same
    [14:27] <Falcon02> and these are basically the same as the original load
    [14:27] <Falcon02> which also seems to be basically the same as dutchfire's instructions
    [14:28] <Falcon02> Marseilles - Left untouched, Courthouse in 24 turns
    [14:29] <Falcon02> Pisae - left untouched
    [14:29] <dutchfire> yeah, I just made them of my screenshots, I figure I could have checked if it was possible to shave a turn off somewhere, but didn't feel like it
    [14:29] <dutchfire> you could work another mine in marseilles instead of the sea to speed up the courthouse
    [14:30] <Falcon02> goes to 11 turns
    [14:31] <Falcon02> Growth goes from 2 -> 4
    [14:31] <Falcon02> yeah, gonna do that
    [14:31] <Falcon02> alright all preturn instructions appear to be processed
    [14:31] <Falcon02> orders still standing are ...
    [14:31] <Falcon02> Munich: new citizen on cottage
    [14:31] <Falcon02> Riversight, Cumae, Neapolis, Xanadu:
    [14:31] <Falcon02> DON'T let the cities go over their happiness/health cap (appiles especially to Xanadu)
    [14:31] <Falcon02> NOTB: At growth, put the new citizen back on the grass mined hill. When the library is complete start a forge. Also, once the library is complete, reset the free specialist to a scientist.
    [14:31] <Falcon02> Paris expected to grow on turn 2 and reach maximum health
    [14:31] <Falcon02> Don't change civics
    [14:31] <Falcon02> Stop if any other civ has philosophy AND education
    [14:31] <Falcon02> Don't declare war on anyone
    [14:31] <Falcon02> If you see a tech deal that is even slightly reasonable, take it.
    [14:31] <Falcon02> Keep at least 200 gold in the treasury, keep science as high as possible without hurting that cash stack
    [14:31] <Falcon02> just prepare for the next invasion of Germany, try and put some more units on the borders of Rome if you can.
    [14:34] <Falcon02> in process of posting preturn save
    [14:35] * Disconnected
    Session Close: Sun Jul 29 14:37:31 2007

    Session Start: Sun Jul 29 14:46:00 2007
    Session Ident: #turnchat
    [14:46] * Now talking in #turnchat
    [14:46] * Topic is 'Turnchat Sunday 29th of Juli 18.00 GMT 2.00 EDT'
    [14:46] * Set by dutchfire on Sun Jul 29 13:09:37
    [14:46] * Chieftess sets mode: +v Falcon02
    [14:46] <Falcon02> Internet connection dropped out
    [14:46] * dutchfire (~evldrunen@19108886.17833c43.nb.home.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 360 seconds)
    [14:46] <fed1943> internet looks bad
    [14:46] <Hyronymus> you're not the only one with that problem, fed1943 :)
    [14:47] <Falcon02> http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/7394/C4DG2_AD-1580_-_Turn_0_End_of_Preturn.Civ4SavedGame
    [14:47] <Falcon02> Preturn Save
    [14:47] <Hyronymus> just promise me you and dutchfire don't take turns ;)
    [14:48] <Falcon02> anyone going to review the save before I move on to turn 1?
    [14:49] <Hyronymus> no
    [14:50] <fed1943> no
    [14:50] <Falcon02> alright
    [14:50] <Falcon02> *** End Turn 0 - Hitting Enter
    [14:50] <Falcon02> *** We have met the Christian Incan people
    [14:50] <Provo> yes
    [14:51] <Provo> I knew they where Christian due to the wonders
    [14:51] <Falcon02> *** There shall be peace in our time
    [14:51] <Falcon02> hates us too much to offer anything valuable in trade
    [14:51] <Falcon02> Continuing on
    [14:51] <Provo> what cities do they have?
    [14:51] <Provo> the incas?
    [14:52] <Provo> and techs?
    [14:52] <Hyronymus> + power
    [14:52] <Provo> yes
    [14:52] <Falcon02> they lacked the printing press...
    [14:52] <Falcon02> now gotta deal with cities
    [14:52] <Falcon02> remind me once I finish with the cities
    [14:52] <Provo> ok
    [14:53] * dutchfire (~evldrunen@19108886.17833c43.nb.home.nl) has joined #turnchat
    [14:53] * Chieftess sets mode: +v dutchfire
    [14:53] <Falcon02> Paris - Library done, now building University (8)
    [14:53] <dutchfire> my connection dropped again
    [14:53] <Falcon02> okay now I'll look back into the Incans
    [14:53] <dutchfire> anything happened since I left?
    [14:53] <Falcon02> we met the incans
    [14:53] <dutchfire> Incans? they're financial, hmmm
    [14:54] <dutchfire> how's their tech?
    [14:54] <Falcon02> They have 8 cities
    [14:54] <fed1943> lack Printing Press
    [14:54] <dutchfire> 8 cities, all incan names?
    [14:55] <dutchfire> do they have philo+edu?
    [14:55] <Falcon02> Tiwanaku, Machu Picchu, Ollantaytambo, Navajo, Corihuayrachina, Huamanga, Vilcas, Vilcabamba
    [14:56] <Falcon02> They have Theology, Music, Economics, Engineering
    [14:56] <Provo> yes
    [14:56] <Provo> separate continent
    [14:56] <Provo> and Christian
    [14:56] <Provo> where did they come from ?
    [14:56] <Provo> and see if they had any wars on power graph
    [14:57] <Falcon02> 4 tiles North of Pisae, (within the Roman seas)
    [14:58] <Falcon02> They are just above Japan in the Power graph right now
    [14:58] <Provo> number 3 then
    [14:58] <Falcon02> Not seeing any major dips in the power graph
    [14:59] <Falcon02> a couple of small spikes though
    [14:59] <Falcon02> they've got the best GNP
    [14:59] <Provo> and no changes in power graphs ?
    [14:59] <dutchfire> which civics, and how's their GNP graph?
    [14:59] <Provo> yes, separate continent
    [14:59] <Provo> This is the one we should invade to get 60 %
    [14:59] <Provo> and end the game
    [15:00] <Provo> good
    [15:00] <dutchfire> Could you check on the diplomacy screen, the first header, whether they have contact with Monte/Toku?
    [15:00] <Falcon02> Montazuma has had a nice spike in his power graph, still below us
    [15:00] <Falcon02> I predict they'll match us in a turn or two at the current rate
    [15:01] * Disconnected
    Session Close: Sun Jul 29 15:01:24 2007

    Session Start: Sun Jul 29 15:02:29 2007
    Session Ident: #turnchat
    [15:02] * Now talking in #turnchat
    [15:02] * Topic is 'Turnchat Sunday 29th of Juli 18.00 GMT 2.00 EDT'
    [15:02] * Set by dutchfire on Sun Jul 29 13:09:37
    [15:02] * Chieftess sets mode: +v Falcon03
    [15:02] <Falcon03> meh...
    [15:02] <Falcon03> anyway....
    [15:02] <Falcon03> he knows both Monty and Toko... and in fact has open borders with Monty
    [15:02] <Provo> interesting
    [15:03] <Provo> they are friends then
    [15:03] <dutchfire> hmm, they could be on one continent then, that's my bet at least
    [15:03] <Provo> the Japanese are on the outside
    [15:03] <dutchfire> as always :p
    [15:03] <Provo> but got aggressive/protective trait
    [15:03] <Falcon03> on a side note, Bismark has only met Monty
    [15:03] * Falcon02 (~user@Falcon02.Users.irc-chat.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
    [15:03] * Falcon03 is now known as Falcon02
    [15:04] <fed1943> protective is just for warlords
    [15:04] <Falcon02> Rome knows both
    [15:04] <Provo> I see
    [15:04] <dutchfire> well, with them possibly reaching Liberalism soon, I'm unsure what to do
    [15:04] <Provo> I would take liberalism-astronomy asap
    [15:05] <dutchfire> it might be good to upload the save now, and we might have to stop for discussion
    [15:05] <Provo> we cannot end that
    [15:05] <Provo> I think ending now and getting the forums to discuss what to do next would be wise
    [15:05] <fed1943> I would go on Lib. and 1 turn before end trade techs; and go toward Military
    [15:05] <Falcon02> On another note... how am I supposed to tell if they don't have Philosphy and Education?
    [15:06] <Provo> we need more galleons than cavalry now
    [15:06] <fed1943> if they have not,they want them
    [15:07] <Falcon02> uploading save
    [15:07] <dutchfire> click on Huayna's name in the right, check if philosophy and/or education turn up in OUR list of techs
    [15:08] <Falcon02> http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/7394/C4DG2_AD-1585_-_Turn_1.Civ4SavedGame
    [15:08] <Falcon02> Turn 1 save
    [15:08] <Falcon02> all we have to offer Huayna is Printing Press
    [15:08] <Falcon02> so I would think he has both
    [15:08] <Provo> yes
    [15:08] <dutchfire> yeah
    [15:09] <Provo> liberalism is urgent now
    [15:09] <Falcon02> 1 turn, turnchat?
    [15:09] <Provo> either we get it, or we don't
    [15:09] <Provo> I think so
    [15:09] <Provo> and a new tech poll is due
    [15:10] <dutchfire> well, stay online for now, but I think this is the end of the TC
    [15:10] <Falcon02> ok
    [15:10] <Provo> we can chat strategy here
    [15:10] <Provo> but the game could end here
    [15:10] <Provo> we know all civs by now
    [15:11] <Falcon02> FYI, 5 turns to both Liberalism and Nationalism now
    [15:11] <fed1943> it looks they all traded among them
    [15:11] <Provo> I see
    [15:11] <Provo> they did
    [15:12] <Provo> but none got Liberalism
    [15:12] <Falcon02> Monty is the only one who still needs Philosphy
    [15:12] <Provo> and we need astronomy to win the naval race
    [15:13] <Falcon02> Also neither Monty or Toko have Paper, so they can't have Education
    [15:13] <dutchfire> that's correct
    [15:14] <Falcon02> so Huayna's really our only concern for the race to Liberalism
    [15:14] <fed1943> try trade first with the backwards, giving something they can not trade with the others
    [15:14] <Provo> I say we jump two three galleons with settlers and garrisons and pick a couple of uncharted islands now
    [15:14] <Provo> so Liberalism-Astronomy
    [15:15] <dutchfire> we'll have 2 caravels out in 3 turns to scout for islands, but I'm unsure whether there'll be any
    [15:15] <Falcon02> No one really wants to give us any tech trades
    [15:15] <Provo> there is always islands
    [15:15] <Provo> there are rarely games with absolutely no islands
    [15:16] <Provo> ït is a gamble, but a needed one
    [15:16] <Falcon02> Religious tentions and/or wars has made everyone hate us
    [15:16] <fed1943> but our continent first
    [15:16] <Provo> I disagree, two-three expeditions do not cost that bad
    [15:16] <Provo> and these islands are not waiting for us
    [15:17] <Provo> the caravels will find the islands, and the galleons will go there
    [15:17] <Provo> and we got more than enough to win this island
    [15:17] <Provo> some are talking navy-talk here, but I see no commitment
    [15:18] <fed1943> so,do you suggest a military expedition to an island that can even not to exist?
    [15:18] <Provo> the cost is virtually non existant
    [15:18] <Provo> you guys more than willingly let a settler wait in EA
    [15:19] <Provo> wny not let a couple wait in a galleon ?
    [15:19] <Provo> an advance island would be very useful, for all scenarios
    [15:19] <Provo> not a military expedition
    [15:19] <Provo> but a small colony group
    [15:20] <Provo> 2-3 galleons, 2-3 settlers and garrison
    [15:20] <Provo> these islands would also notice their ship movements and so on
    [15:20] <Provo> key intel
    [15:20] <fed1943> Rome is still strong
    [15:21] <Provo> not stronger than we can afford send colonists
    [15:21] <Provo> Spain and Portugal had strong rivals in Europe
    [15:21] <Provo> that did not stop them from sending colonists
    [15:22] <fed1943> indeed and I know the situation they had after these adventures
    [15:22] <Provo> well, the problem was they spent their gold on crazy things
    [15:22] <Provo> all we want are a couple of clever listening and advance posts
    [15:23] <dutchfire> I think we should send out the caravels out asap, and if they find something, it's time to set up an expedition, but I rate the chances of an island as slim
    [15:23] <fed1943> since it does not delay the conquest of our continent
    [15:24] <Provo> we still need astronomy
    [15:24] <Falcon02> Well, I think at any rate we're gonna want some Galleons for general troop transports.
    [15:24] <Provo> or there are no chances to respond
    [15:24] <Falcon02> even if we don't find an island
    [15:24] <Falcon02> we also still have some settler locations that can still be filled in
    [15:24] <Provo> overseas trade and observatories are also useful things
    [15:24] <Provo> trading resources
    [15:25] <dutchfire> once our caravels find something, it's time to get an expedition, but the chance of finding an island are pretty slim
    [15:25] <Falcon02> so I see no problems with building a few galleons and settlers soon.
    [15:25] <Provo> I know that the island could take 400 years more to settle fully
    [15:25] <Falcon02> of course that requires Astronomy first for the Galleons
    [15:25] <Provo> yes
    [15:25] <Provo> astronomy first
    [15:25] <Provo> otherwise, no choice
    [15:26] <Falcon02> I'm starting to agree with provo... cause even if we don't have any Islands the Observatories would help science
    [15:27] <Provo> and we still got surplus resources to trade
    [15:27] <Provo> which helps diplomacy
    [15:27] <Provo> 25 % research bonus per city is one thing
    [15:28] <Provo> trading all the spare goods another
    [15:28] <Provo> then we got the famous galleons
    [15:30] <fed1943> then, no more chat?
    [15:30] <Provo> no clue
    [15:30] <Provo> I guess they are on the save
    [15:32] <dutchfire> I think military tradition is a bigger priority though
    [15:32] <fed1943> the bonus tech poll is not over,right?
    [15:32] <fed1943> I agree with dutchfire
    [15:33] <Provo> military tradition is not a bigger priority
    [15:33] <Provo> since we own the continent
    [15:33] <Provo> it is overseas now that matters
    [15:33] <Falcon02> yes, however I'm sure a repoll will occure, because all votes until now did not concider Incan tech.
    [15:33] * dutchfire (~evldrunen@19108886.17833c43.nb.home.nl) Quit (Quit: )
    [15:33] <Provo> yes, we need a repoll
    [15:34] <Falcon02> as for the turnchat, yeah It's over
    [15:34] <fed1943> I asked about the poll because if not closed cannot be binding
    [15:35] <fed1943> then,you right the poll closes and another one will be in order
    [15:36] <fed1943> were somes beakers invested in Nationalism?
    [15:36] <Falcon02> I don't know, I'm not legal expert, but the DP has a responcibility to follow the poll at the time of the turnchat, however that is hard to keep track of after the fact.
    [15:36] <Falcon02> 1 turns's worth
    [15:36] <Falcon02> 718/2574 beakers
    [15:37] <Falcon02> well, the 1 turn + overflow
    [15:37] <fed1943> hum...that makes a decision even more hard
    [15:37] <fed1943> turn ended or not?
    [15:37] <Provo> not end please
    [15:37] <Provo> let us thing
    [15:37] <Provo> think
    [15:38] <fed1943> I just asked if it was already ended; if not,obvious not end it now
    [15:39] <Falcon02> instructions - Stop if any other civ has philosophy AND education
    [15:39] <fed1943> you absolutely right Falcon 02
    [15:40] <fed1943> so, no turn was ended, right?
    [15:40] <Falcon02> and it appears this is true for the Incans
    [15:40] <Falcon02> well, we went from turn 0 - turn 1
    [15:40] <Falcon02> so one turn was played
    [15:41] <Falcon02> but aside from preturn instructions, pressing enter once, and switching Paris to University after finishing Library, nothing else was done
    [15:42] <fed1943> ok, and about incans all indicates that. They can even be also researching Lib now
    [15:42] <fed1943> all good
    [15:43] <fed1943> is the final save already posted?
    [15:44] <Falcon02> yup
    [15:44] <Falcon02> Turn 1
    [15:44] <fed1943> excellent! thanks


    There are a couple gaps where I got disconnected for some reason or another, so if someone has a more complete log please post it.
     
  5. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Messages:
    14,106
    Location:
    -
    I've got a chatlog too, but I disconnected once or twice to, so it isn't complete either.
    Spoiler :
    Session Start: Sun Jul 29 19:00:10 2007
    Session Ident: #turnchat
    * Now talking in #turnchat
    * Topic is 'Turnchat 10PM PDT (1AM EDT, 0500 GMT)'
    * Set by DaveShack on Wed Jul 25 04:15:56
    * Chieftess sets mode: +v dutchfire
    * dutchfire connection has dropped
    <dutchfire> the TC will start in about an hour, won't it?
    <Tank> It should start now
    <Tank> 18:00GMT
    <Tank> Oh wait
    <Tank> Sorry, yeah, 1 hour
    <Tank> DST
    * Chieftess has no idea which timezone is what..
    * Chieftess sets mode: +o dutchfire
    <Chieftess> DF - you can change the turnchat title if you'd like.
    <dutchfire> how? (I'm not really a mIRC guy, more a MSN guy :p)
    * Retrieving #turnchat modes...
    <dutchfire> nevermind, I figured out
    <Falcon02> on a side note it's currently 1708 GMT. So yes 1 hour to turnchat start
    <Falcon02> got no instructions from Ordinary Guy yet though... I think he was assuming the chat would be delayed...
    * dutchfire changes topic to 'Turnchat Sunday 29th of Juli 18.00 GMT 2.00 EDT'
    <dutchfire> hmm, I suppose we could guide you through the TC for that Aimag, it shouldn't really be more than a couple of builds
    <Falcon02> Also on a side note, if anyone is unsure of what the GMT time is there's a nice web clock which goes by GMT
    <Falcon02> http://www.time.gov/timezone.cgi?UTC/s/0/java
    <dutchfire> @falcon, you missed my instructions as a citizen about the tech poll
    <Falcon02> added 'em
    <Falcon02> kinda didn't include 'em at first since they were instructions as an individual citizen as such not really official.
    <dutchfire> citizens can give instructions regarding polls AFAIK
    <dutchfire> well, I'll just play some pbems before the TC starts
    <Falcon02> still hardly seems official in my eyes. But in the end, it's a friendly reminder of an important poll to make sure the results of which are followed.
    <Falcon02> I'm gonna go ahead and load up the save right now in preperation
    <dutchfire> okay
    <dutchfire> I'll see if I have some time to skim our laws to check if I recalled everything correctly
    <Falcon02> anyway, your point was made, and regardless... the results of a poll must be followed
    <Falcon02> *** 15 minutes to turnchat
    <dutchfire> @Chieftess, DS is delaying the poll, but didn't TF check it already?
    <Falcon02> *** 7 minutes to turnchat
    <Chieftess> Yes, TF checked it.
    <dutchfire> well, why is DS delaying it then? Is he just not up to date?
    <Chieftess> Probably because it's a tie again.
    <Chieftess> If the poll bug occurs in any other poll, I guess we can call it "Abstain's Revenge" or something.
    * Chieftess just noticed that... the bug only made itself known after we did away with abstain. :hmm:
    <Chieftess> Anyway, I've gtg.
    <Chieftess> bye
    <Falcon02> see ya
    <Falcon02> *** Turnchat has stared
    <Falcon02> started*
    <Falcon02> EA: University (11) - Done
    <Falcon02> Ainu: Library (3), Bank (20). Drop the "citizen" specialists. - Done, Turned one Citizen specialist into Merchant distributed rest on land
    <Falcon02> Munich: Bank (6), Library. emphasize growth. Move citizen from plains forest to grass with hamlet. - Done
    <Falcon02> Munich - new citizen on cottage - Growth Expected in 7 turns
    <Falcon02> Berlin: Market (1), Library (5), National Epic. Drop the "citizen" specialists. - Done, NE not in queue yet, needs library to be finished first, Citizens specialists distributed on land
    <Falcon02> Cologne: Market (9), Library - Done
    <dutchfire> which cities instructions are missing? (nvm I'll check it myself)
    <Falcon02> Riversight: Build anything that increases commerce or production or units that are needed. - Put Confusian Monastary in queue for now (current build, University, done in 5 turns)
    <Falcon02> Thanks
    <Falcon02> Cumae, Neapolis, Xanadu: Build anything that increases commerce - Checking....
    <Falcon02> Cumae - Bank(15) in production, no change made
    <dutchfire> some universities perhaps?
    <Falcon02> Neapolis - Bank (23) in production, no change
    <Tank> Open WroldBuilder and get all the techs...now
    <dutchfire> okay, I'd say Coppertown: work the cottages, the grassland farm, the grassland forests, the mines, the cows, a plains forest, a scientist and an engineer
    <dutchfire> and the watermills
    <Falcon02> Xanadu - Market (1) in production, added University (20) after Market
    <Falcon02> please hold it until I get the rest finished
    <dutchfire> okay
    <Falcon02> "DON'T let the cities go over their happiness/health cap (appiles especially to Xanadu)" - Will do my best, Xanadu made to stagnate, 3 turns from growth and passing Happiness limit
    * DaveShack has joined #turnchat
    * Chieftess sets mode: +v DaveShack
    * Mafioso sets mode: +o DaveShack
    <Falcon02> Workers: Increase the yield of commerce/production/food, depending on the city. - Noted
    <dutchfire> Hi Dave
    <DaveShack> hi
    <dutchfire> Chieftess said that TF's check on the polls was alright
    <Falcon02> NOTA: Switch the Engineer specialist to a scientist, this will shave one turn off of Liberalism. After the university, switch to either Research or military units.
    <DaveShack> one more thing needs to be checked
    <Falcon02> NOTA - Done, added Knight and then Research into end of the queue
    * Tank has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
    <Falcon02> NOTB: Take the citizen off the grass mined hill and place him on the irrigated grass for growth. At growth, put the new citizen back on the grass mined hill. When the library is complete start a forge. Also, once the library is complete, reset the free specialist to a scientist. - Done Growth Expected in 7 turns
    <Falcon02> Library expected in 3
    * fed1943 has joined #turnchat
    * Chieftess sets mode: +v fed1943
    <Falcon02> Orleans: After the forge, start on a university. Switch the priest specialist to a scientist.
    <Falcon02> - Done
    <fed1943> hi people
    <dutchfire> hi
    <Falcon02> Paris: After the library start on a university. Remove all merchant specialist except one. Place them on coastal tiles for both growth and commerce. - Done, can't add University to queue until Library finished, expected in 1 turn
    <Falcon02> Growth expected in 2 turns, city will then reach Health limit
    <Falcon02> Okay given city instructions completed
    <Falcon02> now for the missing city instructions
    <Falcon02> Also, Research changed to Democracy queue
    <dutchfire> Coppertown: University, work the grassland farm, the cows, the mines, the watermills, the cottage, the grassland forests, a plains forest, a scientist, an engineer
    <dutchfire> Rheims: Caravel, work cows, mine, 1 grassland forest, cottages, 3 sea tiles, merchant
    <dutchfire> Marseilles: Courthouse, engineer, plantation, 2 seatiles
    <dutchfire> PisaeLibrary, farm, plantation, engineer, forest (2x), horses, mine
    <dutchfire> I had them ready :D
    <Falcon02> Nationalism (6) -> Constitution (9) -> Democracy (12)
    <Falcon02> figured you would
    <dutchfire> nothing official though, just my opinions, feel free to change
    <Falcon02> Yeah I understand
    <Falcon02> past time, and you're not OrdinaryGuy
    <Falcon02> Coppertown - Done, left it pretty much the same
    <Falcon02> moved a grassland forest to the unworked cottage
    * DaveShack is now known as DS_away
    <Falcon02> Rhiems - Done, left the same
    <Falcon02> and these are basically the same as the original load
    <Falcon02> which also seems to be basically the same as dutchfire's instructions
    <Falcon02> Marseilles - Left untouched, Courthouse in 24 turns
    <Falcon02> Pisae - left untouched
    <dutchfire> yeah, I just made them of my screenshots, I figure I could have checked if it was possible to shave a turn off somewhere, but didn't feel like it
    <dutchfire> you could work another mine in marseilles instead of the sea to speed up the courthouse
    <Falcon02> goes to 11 turns
    <Falcon02> Growth goes from 2 -> 4
    <Falcon02> yeah, gonna do that
    <Falcon02> alright all preturn instructions appear to be processed
    <Falcon02> orders still standing are ...
    <Falcon02> Munich: new citizen on cottage
    <Falcon02> Riversight, Cumae, Neapolis, Xanadu:
    <Falcon02> DON'T let the cities go over their happiness/health cap (appiles especially to Xanadu)
    <Falcon02> NOTB: At growth, put the new citizen back on the grass mined hill. When the library is complete start a forge. Also, once the library is complete, reset the free specialist to a scientist.
    <Falcon02> Paris expected to grow on turn 2 and reach maximum health
    <Falcon02> Don't change civics
    <Falcon02> Stop if any other civ has philosophy AND education
    <Falcon02> Don't declare war on anyone
    <Falcon02> If you see a tech deal that is even slightly reasonable, take it.
    <Falcon02> Keep at least 200 gold in the treasury, keep science as high as possible without hurting that cash stack
    <Falcon02> just prepare for the next invasion of Germany, try and put some more units on the borders of Rome if you can.
    <dutchfire> I think the gold mine near berlin is the best place to assemble one part of our army
    * Provo has joined #turnchat
    * Chieftess sets mode: +v Provo
    <Provo> hey there
    <fed1943> hi
    <dutchfire> hi
    <Provo> done ?
    <dutchfire> no, just started, still turn 1
    * Falcon02 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 360 seconds)
    <dutchfire> lol, apparently Falcon is done :D
    <Provo> indeed
    <fed1943> can someone please tell me how put the game not taking all screen (I forgot) ?
    <Provo> ?
    <Provo> That was Yoda-talk ?
    * Hyronymus has joined #turnchat
    * Chieftess sets mode: +v Hyronymus
    <fed1943> so that I can have the game open and this window
    <Hyronymus> hi guys
    <fed1943> hi
    <dutchfire> @fed: Options screen, then Graphics, then uncheck the full screen box
    <Provo> hi
    <dutchfire> Hi
    <Hyronymus> wait, am I actually in time for a tc?
    <fed1943> thanks
    <Provo> I am just curious if something crazy takes place
    <dutchfire> yep, but falcon's connection dropped or something
    <Provo> yes
    <Hyronymus> lol, I have to admit I came here by accident
    <Provo> me too
    <dutchfire> @hyronymus, could you take a look at your polling initiative thread?
    Session Close: Sun Jul 29 20:41:21 2007

    Session Start: Sun Jul 29 20:41:22 2007
    Session Ident: #turnchat
    * Disconnected
    Session Close: Sun Jul 29 20:41:51 2007

    Session Start: Sun Jul 29 20:52:41 2007
    Session Ident: #turnchat
    * Now talking in #turnchat
    * Topic is 'Turnchat Sunday 29th of Juli 18.00 GMT 2.00 EDT'
    * Set by dutchfire on Sun Jul 29 19:09:37
    * Chieftess sets mode: +v dutchfire
    <Falcon02> Paris - Library done, now building University (8)
    <dutchfire> my connection dropped again
    <Falcon02> okay now I'll look back into the Incans
    <dutchfire> anything happened since I left?
    <Falcon02> we met the incans
    <dutchfire> Incans? they're financial, hmmm
    <dutchfire> how's their tech?
    <Falcon02> They have 8 cities
    <fed1943> lack Printing Press
    <dutchfire> 8 cities, all incan names?
    <dutchfire> do they have philo+edu?
    <Falcon02> Tiwanaku, Machu Picchu, Ollantaytambo, Navajo, Corihuayrachina, Huamanga, Vilcas, Vilcabamba
    <Falcon02> They have Theology, Music, Economics, Engineering
    <Provo> yes
    <Provo> separate continent
    <Provo> and Christian
    <Provo> where did they come from ?
    <Provo> and see if they had any wars on power graph
    <Falcon02> 4 tiles North of Pisae, (within the Roman seas)
    <Falcon02> They are just above Japan in the Power graph right now
    <Provo> number 3 then
    <Provo> and no changes in power graphs ?
    <Falcon02> Not seeing any major dips in the power graph
    <Falcon02> a couple of small spikes though
    <dutchfire> which civics, and how's their GNP graph?
    <Provo> yes, separate continent
    <Provo> This is the one we should invade to get 60 %
    <Provo> and end the game
    <Falcon02> they've got the best GNP
    <dutchfire> Could you check on the diplomacy screen, the first header, whether they have contact with Monte/Toku?
    <Provo> good
    <Falcon02> Montazuma has had a nice spike in his power graph, still below us
    <Provo> yes, check their relations
    <Falcon02> I predict they'll match us in a turn or two at the current rate
    <Provo> the Aztecs ?
    <dutchfire> they probably upgraded recently, didn't they finish Guilds some time ago? That could account for a lot of improvement
    <fed1943> do you still want to delay liberalism? if not trade techs 1 turn before (PP by Eng and Music?)
    * Falcon03 has joined #turnchat
    * Chieftess sets mode: +v Falcon03
    <Falcon03> meh...
    <Falcon03> anyway....
    <Falcon03> he knows both Monty and Toko... and in fact has open borders with Monty
    <Provo> interesting
    <Provo> they are friends then
    <dutchfire> hmm, they could be on one continent then, that's my bet at least
    <Provo> the Japanese are on the outside
    <dutchfire> as always :p
    <Provo> but got aggressive/protective trait
    <Falcon03> on a side note, Bismark has only met Monty
    * Falcon02 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
    * Falcon03 is now known as Falcon02
    <fed1943> protective is just for warlords
    <Falcon02> Rome knows both
    <Provo> I see
    <dutchfire> well, with them possibly reaching Liberalism soon, I'm unsure what to do
    <Provo> I would take liberalism-astronomy asap
    <dutchfire> it might be good to upload the save now, and we might have to stop for discussion
    <Provo> we cannot end that
    <Provo> I think ending now and getting the forums to discuss what to do next would be wise
    <fed1943> I would go on Lib. and 1 turn before end trade techs; and go toward Military
    <Falcon02> On another note... how am I supposed to tell if they don't have Philosphy and Education?
    <Provo> we need more galleons than cavalry now
    <fed1943> if they have not,they want them
    <Falcon02> uploading save
    <dutchfire> click on Huayna's name in the right, check if philosophy and/or education turn up in OUR list of techs
    <Falcon02> http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/7394/C4DG2_AD-1585_-_Turn_1.Civ4SavedGame
    <Falcon02> Turn 1 save
    <Falcon02> all we have to offer Huayna is Printing Press
    <Falcon02> so I would think he has both
    <dutchfire> yeah
    <Provo> yes
    <Provo> liberalism is urgent now
    <Falcon02> 1 turn, turnchat?
    <Provo> either we get it, or we don't
    <Provo> I think so
    <Provo> and a new tech poll is due
    <dutchfire> well, stay online for now, but I think this is the end of the TC
    <Falcon02> ok
    <Provo> we can chat strategy here
    <Provo> but the game could end here
    <Provo> we know all civs by now
    <Falcon02> FYI, 5 turns to both Liberalism and Nationalism now
    <fed1943> it looks they all traded among them
    <Provo> I see
    <Provo> they did
    <Provo> but none got Liberalism
    <Falcon02> Monty is the only one who still needs Philosphy
    <Provo> and we need astronomy to win the naval race
    <Falcon02> Also neither Monty or Toko have Paper, so they can't have Education
    <dutchfire> that's correct
    <fed1943> try trade first with the backwards, giving something they can not trade with the others
    <Falcon02> so Huayna's really our only concern for the race to Liberalism
    <Provo> I say we jump two three galleons with settlers and garrisons and pick a couple of uncharted islands now
    <Provo> so Liberalism-Astronomy
    <dutchfire> we'll have 2 caravels out in 3 turns to scout for islands, but I'm unsure whether there'll be any
    <Falcon02> No one really wants to give us any tech trades
    <Provo> there is always islands
    <Provo> there are rarely games with absolutely no islands
    <Provo> ït is a gamble, but a needed one
    <Falcon02> Religious tentions and/or wars has made everyone hate us
    <fed1943> but our continent first
    <Provo> I disagree, two-three expeditions do not cost that bad
    <Provo> and these islands are not waiting for us
    <Provo> the caravels will find the islands, and the galleons will go there
    <Provo> and we got more than enough to win this island
    <Provo> some are talking navy-talk here, but I see no commitment
    <fed1943> so,do you suggest a military expedition to an island that can even not to exist?
    <Provo> the cost is virtually non existant
    <Provo> you guys more than willingly let a settler wait in EA
    <Provo> wny not let a couple wait in a galleon ?
    <Provo> an advance island would be very useful, for all scenarios
    <Provo> not a military expedition
    <Provo> but a small colony group
    <Provo> 2-3 galleons, 2-3 settlers and garrison
    <Provo> these islands would also notice their ship movements and so on
    <Provo> key intel
    <fed1943> Rome is still strong
    <Provo> not stronger than we can afford send colonists
    <Provo> Spain and Portugal had strong rivals in Europe
    <Provo> that did not stop them from sending colonists
    <fed1943> indeed and I know the situation they had after these adventures
    <Provo> well, the problem was they spent their gold on crazy things
    <Provo> all we want are a couple of clever listening and advance posts
    <dutchfire> I think we should send out the caravels out asap, and if they find something, it's time to set up an expedition, but I rate the chances of an island as slim
    <fed1943> since it does not delay the conquest of our continent
    <Provo> we still need astronomy
    <Falcon02> Well, I think at any rate we're gonna want some Galleons for general troop transports.
    <Provo> or there are no chances to respond
    <Falcon02> even if we don't find an island
    <Falcon02> we also still have some settler locations that can still be filled in
    <Provo> overseas trade and observatories are also useful things
    <Provo> trading resources
    <dutchfire> once our caravels find something, it's time to get an expedition, but the chance of finding an island are pretty slim
    <Falcon02> so I see no problems with building a few galleons and settlers soon.
    <Provo> I know that the island could take 400 years more to settle fully
    <Falcon02> of course that requires Astronomy first for the Galleons
    <Provo> yes
    <Provo> astronomy first
    <Provo> otherwise, no choice
    <Falcon02> I'm starting to agree with provo... cause even if we don't have any Islands the Observatories would help science
    <Provo> and we still got surplus resources to trade
    <Provo> which helps diplomacy
    <Provo> 25 % research bonus per city is one thing
    <Provo> trading all the spare goods another
    <Provo> then we got the famous galleons
    <fed1943> then, no more chat?
    <Provo> no clue
    <Provo> I guess they are on the save
    <dutchfire> I think military tradition is a bigger priority though
    <fed1943> the bonus tech poll is not over,right?
    <fed1943> I agree with dutchfire
    <Provo> military tradition is not a bigger priority
    <Provo> since we own the continent
    <Provo> it is overseas now that matters
    <Falcon02> yes, however I'm sure a repoll will occure, because all votes until now did not concider Incan tech.
    Session Close: Sun Jul 29 21:32:58 2007
     
  6. ordinaryguy

    ordinaryguy Back to Civ!

    Joined:
    May 18, 2006
    Messages:
    621
    Location:
    Singapore
    No harm done. Just one turn played.

    Anyway, I will be in charge of Southwestern Aimag consisting of Paris, Orleans, Coppertown, Rheims, Lyons next term.

    So the next turnchat will be for term 6?
     
  7. ordinaryguy

    ordinaryguy Back to Civ!

    Joined:
    May 18, 2006
    Messages:
    621
    Location:
    Singapore
    These were my planned instructions:

    Coppertown

    Complete University. After that, builds are up to DP.

    Build workshops 1SE and 2S1E of city square after the farm 1N of city square has been completed.

    Control of city tiles is up to DP.

    Grow city to happiness and/or health limit(s).

    Rheims

    Complete Grocer, then start bank.

    Control of city tiles is up to DP.

    Marseilles

    Start a courthouse.

    Windmill the hill 2E of city square.

    Appoint the current citizen specialist as an engineer specialist.

    Control of city tiles is up to DP.

    Pisae

    Complete Forge and Granary, then start library.

    Windmill all the hills in the city radius, e.g. 2N1E, 1NE, 1E, 1SE, 2S1E.

    Control of city tiles is up to DP.
     

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