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Teaching game 2 noobs and a teacher vs. Monarch

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by Shusaku, Nov 2, 2010.

  1. Liquidated

    Liquidated Goofed Up on Cough Syrup!

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    Hah! Some consider worker stealing to be abusing the AI, which it definitely is.

    A good idea though? Liq says if it's Toku, steal away :mischief:

    In Liq'anese, To steal workers is to punt. Once punted and brought to safety, said worker is given a name Leader's "X" where X is some form of the word gift ^^;

    Toku's "Gift"
    Nappy's "Gratuity"
    Sid's "Benefaction"
    etc?

    Who is Sid? Ever look up Barbarians in the Civlopedia?

    Btw: I find if you Name all the workers, your SG mates are that much less likely to accidentally lose them.

    Cheers!
    -Liquidated
     
  2. neilmeister

    neilmeister Lentils have feelings too GOTM Staff

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    almost always a good idea
     
  3. Dem Taqat

    Dem Taqat Bladespawn

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    @Liq- most of those leaders I originally chose for their traits. JC is the only one who I chose mainly for the UU. I don't war early, because i'm not good at it, but with those UU's you don't need to be. Besides, learning rushing is very useful, and it's best to start with strong UUs, then go with war traits, umtil you can rush with freddy and his no-help-to-rushing-civ/traits. I feel that when moving up it's best to cushion yourself, and an immortal rush with darius is the best cushion I know.

    Although Admittedly Financial is a little repetitive after a while.

    DT
    Touring Persian Worlds:king:
     
  4. Shusaku

    Shusaku Chieftain

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    Okay everyone...

    I started the game as Ghandi.

    Here's the game file. To discuss, send pictures with some drawing on it so we can get a better idea of your plan.

    Let's hope this will be a good game...

    Oh and here's a little chart for you guys. I'll keep doing this the whole game.

    Blue circle = area to explore
    Red circle = interesting spots
    Yellow circle = attack
    Orange arrow = moves

    So... I see two intersing tiles west (in red) they provide both hammer and food. So, I think it might be intersting to build there. I would move the settler to the 3 food tile so we can get a better view of the surroundings and see if we should settle there. Going on the mountain the hill south east of my "move spot" could also be a possibilty, but I'm not sure if it will reveal all the spots in blue.

    I would also send the warrior scout a little bit more east so, if west is crap we can probably build east. I don't think it's worth going for the village right away since there's some chances that we will find barbarians and get our asses kicked.

    What are you guys thinking about that?
     

    Attached Files:

  5. babybluepants

    babybluepants Deity GOTM Staff

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    That's quite crappy... Probably settle somewhere west, keeping the cow. Gives up horse/copper/whatever, but who cares.

    I might move the settler 2W and warrior 1SW + warrior 1SW next turn.
     
  6. Liquidated

    Liquidated Goofed Up on Cough Syrup!

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    Could have been a plains cow :lol:

    That is a remarkably bare spot considering there's 1 total fogged tile hehe.

    My bet is corn there along with ponys and metal hehe but ug, time to move west.

    The floods to the west are obviously part of the "make start ok" routine seeing as there's 2x plains hills directly south of it, not scarred with being desert.

    Well move the warrior sw first and see what that looks like. If ugly, then move settler 2 west and warrior sw again. The key here is that there's at most one pure food tile, a flood plain and a hybrid tile in the cows in the starting bfc, not nearly enough food.

    Ignoring the hut is wise, if only since you cannot gain a tech without a town in place :)

    Moving 2 west might burn a turn but you'll end up on what looks like a plain hill for improved visibility south and east-ish.

    There's zero point settling on the floods though as that removes them.

    What map settings/ game speed you pick btw?

    Cheers!
    -Liq
     
  7. Shusaku

    Shusaku Chieftain

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    I made a fractal, standard size map at normal speed.

    So, spreading to scout in many places isn't good? From what I saw, you both suggest to move both the warrior and the settler at west. Can I know why? Is it because in Monarch lvl you'll be attacked quickly?
     
  8. babybluepants

    babybluepants Deity GOTM Staff

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    You won't be attacked anytime soon. ;) I'll give you a rundown on that at some point later on.

    Reasoning:

    The start basically sucks. You have a mediocre food resource and nothing else. The one invisible tile is plains, so at best a dry wheat (not very exciting). If I was playing this, I might wander for a few turns looking for a better capital. Let's not do that in an SG, though.

    West looks more promising to me (for FP's if nothing else), so I like both units showing me as much of it as possible. Founding a city on a plains hill gives you an extra hammer, as well. The northern PH seems to be surrounded by green and has fresh water, while the southern is all brown and dry.

    Not promising you that it's a good move (might easily suck even worse).
     
  9. neilmeister

    neilmeister Lentils have feelings too GOTM Staff

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    I agree, settler 2W.

    The location of your capital is one of the most important things in the game.
    First warrior should always go exploring, especially if there are huts. You need to know what resources/enemies are around you so you can decide your strategy.
     
  10. Liquidated

    Liquidated Goofed Up on Cough Syrup!

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    Well move the warrior first before the settler always.

    Most starts aren't this ugly food wise meaning moving is needed.

    Since you need to find a good spot to found the town west has a river and a flood plain, making it more attractive than east, which has more ???. Paramount here is food. Rivers mean food, one way or another.

    Moving the warrior SW is uncovering a possible move south if there's anything of interest there. If it's more plains etc, then settler needs to move west.

    For now, move the warrior SW and see if there's anything worth settling around.

    Cheers!
    -Liquidated
     
  11. Shusaku

    Shusaku Chieftain

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    Okay, you're probably right. I think we can all agree about this move. So, since everyone has the game file, we're gonna move the warrior SW. I won't send some pictures, we don't really need to.
     
  12. Liquidated

    Liquidated Goofed Up on Cough Syrup!

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    Here, can do this in my sleep by now.

    Larger picture so one can see the floods / desert in the fog.

    Spoiler :


    Much better looking.

    Cheers!
    -Liq
     
  13. Fellow

    Fellow Chieftain

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    Hmmm given the chance, that there is another ressource nearby I would suggest, moving one west and then settle. Looking at the riverplain nearby gives some basic food and the hills around my later be used to create a military producing city (sustained by the food of the river tile).

    The cow would add some hammer as well and therefore not be bad either...

    Where is the flaw in my plan? *smile*
     
  14. neilmeister

    neilmeister Lentils have feelings too GOTM Staff

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    Now I'm thinking settle 2S, on the plains. It gets at least 3 FP, cows and several PH.
     
  15. Fleme

    Fleme Obey the Kitty!

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    Because that is not a massively forested start, odds are that this isn't a cow glitch and that there's in fact food in that one fogged tile; Atleast there's a good chance of that.

    That in mind, I, as a lurker, suggest that you settle 1SE. Nets you riverside, +2 floodplains over SIP while still retaining the option of that hidden food.

    However, if Shusakus track record holds true, he'll just ignore all the advice and settle somewhere really awkward :lol:

    Back to lurking ->
     
  16. Liquidated

    Liquidated Goofed Up on Cough Syrup!

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    That plains 2 south as settle is at least 1 desert 1 peak 5 flood plains and the south western river tile looks grass. Grass cow in home row, 2x plains hills, freshwater and copious rivers, not a bad site.

    Since moving two south eats a turn, how about 1 south, one southwest so the settler lands on that plains hill for a real look see?

    At worst you can move to the plains and settle same turn.

    Move the warrior SW or SE next turn depending on what the settler move sees. SE prolly on account moving further southwest-ish of plains doesn't make sense.

    Honestly, you rolled a really crappy settle in place start :lol:

    Grats!

    Cheers!
    -Liquidated
     
  17. Shusaku

    Shusaku Chieftain

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    Like Fleme said, I usually end up settling at the bad place...

    From what I see, you guys suggest all different possibilities, but you don't talk about settling 1S, 1SE. It give the city access to the hills, many spots of food, cows, place for some cottages, etc. Furthermore, it's riverside. What can you ask more?

    Please explain me why it isn't a good spot to settle first.

    Fellow, I think that your plan isn't that good because of the food you'll get. By settling 1W, you end up with 2 squares of 3 food, while 2S, 1SW - S offers 3 squares of 3 each. Since you want your capital to grow fast, you'll need lots of food. But again, I'm the poorest player here...

    Fleme, simply don't see why you suggest settling 1SE... You give up on resources south in the fog! I honestly don't think that there will only be 2 tiles with 3 food 1 gold. There's probably more resources in south than in west. Also, what will happen if barbarians pop out from this tribal village?
     
  18. Dem Taqat

    Dem Taqat Bladespawn

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    Hmm. That really isn't much of a start. Lacks food and has nothing but floodplains to move to. Personally I reckon 2W is your best move. You get a Plains Hill cap, what looks to be a couple of floodplains, and decent production. You also end up riverside, getting free health and the ability to build a levee later. Long rivers also give your early trade network a little boost. 2S looks Okay, but there might be a sea that river empties into, so there is a possibility of wasting seafood, which I hate doing.

    DT
    Looking to the west :popcorn:
     
  19. Fellow

    Fellow Chieftain

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    Shushaku turn it around, you settle the first turn (you do not waste a turn) and you get production which you can then build into a military city. An early settler will then be able to go to a good food spot and take over the role of the capital... my 2 cents
     
  20. Shusaku

    Shusaku Chieftain

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    Yeah, true... But the turn you save on settling right now will be taken back when you'll build the second settler. The biggest the city is, the faster everything is produced / researched. So, I still think that having a capital with lots of food is better. Your workers, settlers, military will be created faster and so you'll expand more quickly.
     

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