Team 5 Starting Position

[Sullla]

Map creation is finished! Here is the picture of your starting position for discussion:



A few quick notes for the game host and teams involved:

- The game is saved in Worldbuilder format. This was (by far) the easiest way for me to do the editing, and I have been told that PitBoss has no problems accepting Worldbuilder saves.

- The game is currently set to Noble difficulty. This was due to the fact that the AIs get various bonuses on higher difficulty levels, which we don't want. Game host, please make sure to set all five teams to Monarch difficulty when we start, as agreed upon here in the forums.

- Rather than fooling with team names, I've left the default ones. To rename all the important details, simply type Alt-D and fill in your team's preferences.

- Remember to come up with your team's password and send it to the game host! We'll need that before we can start too.

That should be everything, at least in theory. I'm really hoping I did this correctly, as I put a lot of time into crafting the map. You're going to enjoy this one, trust me.

 

[cujo376]

Well looks like we have a pretty good starting spot.I would move our settler 1W to take advantage of the production from what i take is a hill and to allow us access to the coast. However i may be way off base so ill see what the better players have to say and see if their are any huge holes in my opinion.

 

[peter grimes]

Alright!

We've got clams and rice (for food), and at least 5 river tiles where our settler currently sits.

Since we're Financial we may want to consider moving to the Land Between The Rivers - but only after our warrior moves to the hill 1E of his location

 

[James009]

Well looks like we have a pretty good starting spot...

I concur with that statement!

I would suggest that we move our Settler 1N because of the following advantages:

1. We have coastal access
2. Access to all visible resources (including clam, rice, and spices)
3. Access to many hills and a river
4. And a bonus to defense!

We might lose one hill but we immediately have spices within our radius.

I'd also suggest we move the Warrior 1E on to that hill go gain a better view of our starting location.

 

[Hummel]

I would settle at our starting point. We have all we need: Grassland for cottages, hills for production and enough wood for an explosive start.

Our capital should first build a worker and we should research BW.

 

[topas]

I would also settle at our starting point.
Founding on other tiles costs us at least one turn and doesn't offer a more powerful capital.
Too bad we got no irrigated rice...

Research possibilities should be either BW or fishing.
(Agriculture is also possible but it's benefit in the beginning is reduced to 1 extra food...)
Fishing would offer earlier growth while BW leads to Slavery+Chopping+Holkan.

Usually I would say worker first is the strongest option but in this case we cannot take advantage of the exp-bonus...
Maybe warrior-WB-worker (at pop2 with exp-bonus + slavery?) is stronger.
(Guess we have to calculate both options...)

 

[fed1943]

Where to settle:
I think settle in place. Let's see, Hammers first just to make it easier: 5 hills do (3x5) 15 raw H, plus 1 from the central=16; perfect,isn't it. It costs -5F, but the central+rice+clam takes care of it.
Food is very good,2 fast specials,+1 medium,all grass,but the spice, more than enough food to grow.
Commerce is good,too; river,coast,1 sea special,all flat grass (perhaps but 1 to irrigate the rice) can become cottages.
Health is cool, because our trait,fresh water and food specials; so,we can chop some forests,even all, if we so decide.
Happiness got no help on sight; but we are the only mistic, so an early religion can help (and here religion doesn't harm diplomacy).
So, I'm pro settle on site.
Research: to get religion for happiness, Meditation or Polytheism; while takes longer, I would say Poly, as it opens more doors.
Initial build: workboat, for grow (that counts as production for workers and
settlers, and the tile also has commerce).
Best regards,

 

[Hummel]

My civ-instinct says, that BW > fishing and worker > warrior > working boat (pushed by wood) is the fastest start. With pop2 (shell and mine) we then have to build the second worker. But sure -we need to calculate this.

 

[HUSch]

James all your points we 've at our position, why go north? The rice will be irrigated later.

My vote
City at starting point, it's normal grass/plains/wood

Warrior goes 9

 

[topas]

fed
There is no Izzy- or Sal-AI around to steal our religion so it's better to research what we need to improve our land first. (We can probably get Buddha or Hind. when researching it as 2nd, 3rd or 4th tech.)
Further we can't start with a workboat since we don't have fishing.

Hummel
Guess it's going to be a close call...
(If it's really close, then the extra warrior might be worth 1 or 2 turns to grow the cap.)
(btw it's called clams not shell)

edit:
HUSch
Warrior 6 should reveal more tiles since it's upon a hill.

 

[HUSch]

topas
The hill is in CC of the starting position and I want now go 3-4 steps NE, We play without huts, so there is nothing to lose, if we go some steps in the same direction no meander.


For worker now we need 15 turns, if we build a warrior first and build the worker with pop 2 we need 12. My way would be fishing and boat, to push the commerce. I must try a simulation today or tomorrow.

 

[fed1943]

Sorry,partners. I had to stop while posting and,as I can't post and see the
game, I "mixed" with another.
Please, ignore what I said after the place to settle (yes, I believe the current
one is good, as posted).
To go on (build and research) I just see three possible ways:
A) BW and worker, as all hills have forest, so only with BW can be mined; or,
B) Phishing and warrior;
C) Meditation and warrior.
Hard decision and little data, mostly about the happy resources situation.
A) is very powerful but also very slow and risks to lose religion,happy cap can be an huge problem; hammers will begin high, but not food and commerce.
B) is better to food,much better to commerce, but not to hammers; same risk
about the religion/happiness problem.
C) solves happiness,is slower than B) while faster than A).
Anyway shall be a gambit. Well, fingers crossed, A) like the warmongers and the holkans around.
Best regards,

 

[Hummel]

topas

The warrior-production has to paused with the research of fishing.

Clam, ok - thank you.

 

[peter grimes]

I remain convinced the best action is to move the Warrior 1E onto the hill before deciding where to settle.

Since this will be our capital city and we're financial, it's important to get as many river tiles into the BFC [Big Fat Cross] as possible. Coast tiles can't provide as much commerce as river tiles.

 

[HUSch]

PG
Do you want the town at another point?
We 've 5 hills (gras) at least, probaly 7-8, wthout 2 foodres we can't work the hills.

 

[HUSch]

Here is a save with the known details.
With start Worker and BW, we 've after 14 turns BW, the worker needs 15 turns. What will be build and research after. I'm not so god in this strategy, perhaps another can continue the plan.

With start fishing and warrior, We 've in turn 16 workboat (turn 17 at clam) and pop 2 and the second tech agri.
In turn 25 we 've the worker and in turn 27 BW,

 

[James009]

James all your points we 've at our position, why go north? The rice will be irrigated later.

My vote
City at starting point, it's normal grass/plains/wood

Warrior goes 9

That start point is good except it wouldn't be on a hill and receive the defense bonus (+25%). However, that would be my second choice and a I do agree with you that it's a darn good one.

As for the Warrior, I suggest 1E (6) because you get better sight from hills then you do from plains, it would reveal more map territory.

 

[peter grimes]

PG
Do you want the town at another point?
We 've 5 hills (gras) at least, probaly 7-8, wthout 2 foodres we can't work the hills.

I'm not sure yet - but I don't want to commit to settling on a certain tile without seeing the other options first

That's why I'd like us to move the warrior 1E onto the hill, post a screenshot, and then decide on whether or not to move the settler.

It's possible that we could gain an addition 4 riverside tiles by moving the settler 1E (i'm just not certain that the tiles 3e and 3e+1n are riverside); if we settle 1n of the current spot we'll gain 1 riverside.

So, YES to settling 1n, but not before moving the warrior to see the position of the riverside tiles.

Every 2 river tiles we work gains us an additional 4 gold because of our financial trait.

To be clear: I do not propose giving up the clams unless the rewards elsewhere are tremendous

 

[James009]

Honestly, I didn't even consider the rivers up north there and the bonuses they would provide... good point Pete.

 

[HUSch]

The advantage of coastal is more than the 4 you get from the river.
1. and most important we need the foodres for working on mined grass hills.
2. The gains of trade routes are better, with harbor +50% and with custom +100%

If you say coastal is more dangerous, that would be another question.