Wow what a lively discussion!
I like this team already
Let me try to hit everything
Fe3333au said:
Regarding the Designated Player Pool, I actually like that ... since there should not be a pre-requisite for a Minister to be able to open and play the save ... I also think that it is upto the president to appoint or list this roster ...
If this becomes the team consensus, so be it. But I still vehemently disagree with doing this. It's a whole extra layer of bureaucracy and appointments that aren't necessary. We've got elected ministers that are (hopefully) already up to speed on what's going on in the game and are directly accountable to the people
since they are elected. If the president can't play then the domestic minister can. If he can't then the Defense Minister can. If he can't then the Foreign Minister can
then the UN rep. So far in the MTDG, I don't believe we've ever had to even active the CoC, but even if we do there's plenty of redundancy already. If one of the ministers doesnt have Civ4 then it just passes to the next minister. No problem. No extra rules.
DaveMcW said:
Would not having Civ4 disqualify you from being a minister? From being president?
The president's Primary job is to play the save so I'd say having Civ4 is a requirement to be President. For all the other ministers and departments, it may be preferable, but it is not required. They can go off screenshots and reports.
DaveMcW said:
And I am concerned that the president is on the verge of controlling everything.
Or at least becoming a bottleneck.
Would you accept giving Domestic control over religion and civics, and the President control over the sliders and budget?.
You think the president is going to be a bottle neck? Let's look at each job description in my proposal:
President:
Civics A rare decision. Only when something needs to be changed. Once every 20 turns max?
Religion Switching state religions will only occur a few times in an entire game, max. Moving Missionaries around might be a little more work but it's pretty limited.
Expansion Choosing where each new city will go is another rare, but important, decision. Even on a large map, we'll probably only get to settle around 10 cities. This decision will involve domestic, defense, and foreign concerns therefore best in the hands of the president.
Budget: How do we spend our surplus gold (if we even have the tech to spend it). This could be the most active part of the president's job but it's not exactly a "bottle neck" job.
Bottom line: As I have proposed it, the President will play the save (execute orders of all other ministers), and very occasionally have his(her) own decisions to make.
Domestic Minister:
Dept. of Industry: Decisions will need to be made every turn on what we're building, what citizens are working which tiles, how to balance hammers with food with commerce, how many citizens (if any) should not work tiles to give us Great People points, and all the other myriad decisions a city has to make each turn the heart of the game.
Dept. of Interior Every turn workers will need to be moved, decisions will be made on do we want a farm or a cottage? Do we chop this forest now or wait? Do we need to hook up this resource first or build a winery over there first?
Department of Great People: When we have citizens not working, do we want them as Scientist? Engineers? How do we balance what the citizen produces inherently with the kind of Great Person we'd like the best odds of getting.
Department of Economy: Will be responsible to balance tax income with science spending and culture spending. Will choose what to research (And at what pace to do it).
Bottom line: In my proposal, the Domestic minister already controls 80% of the key elements of this game, and will be very actively issuing orders on every turn.
I can see moving control over the "Economy" (sliders for Tax, Science, and Culture) to the President but I just can't imagine giving Domestic any more responsibilities that he already has! On most turns the president will just follow orders, and every so-often get to make a decision. The Domestic minister will be making great big game changing decisions virtually every turn!
DaveMcW said:
We could require that Domestic appoint a certain number of department heads and follow their recommendations. Or maybe we should just split up Domestic into Economy and Interior, and vote for 2 positions.
I don't think Officers should be required to appoint anyone. That would take away from the simplicity of just having a few elected officials with freedom to do the most efficient and effective thing - as they see fit. I think our constitution should enable people to get things done as much as possible not restrict them.
In the same veign, I think 2 positions just makes things more complicated than necessary. As much as possible, I think we should try to avoid overlapping responsibilities to keep things clear.
DaveMcW said:
Also, you didn't comment on my proposal that the president should be able to fill in orders in the absence of any minister. Do you agree?
Must have missed that! Sorry. Yeah I totally agree with this (I believe it's already written in my draft proposal not that you could know that.) He can fill in - if the Current minister hasn't appointed a temporary replacement. I think the current Defense Minister ought to be able to say "hey I'm going to be gone for the week, and I want 'X' to fill in for me." However if they don't leave specific orders, the president can step in.
DaveMcW said:
Propaganda is meant to be released to other teams, which is why I think it should have Foreign's approval. But we could certainly have an equivalent position for internal publishing under Humanities, maybe even held by the same person!
I like this! I'll totally change that in my draft proposal.
Whew!
What do you all think of that!?
(If I can't win on logic I'll try to win on length! )