Teamer Tier List (NQMod)

[DrBigtime]

Please note this is a rough draft and nothing is final. Civs are not ordered in the tiers even if they appear that way; everything is subject to change.

Everyone is familiar with Filthy's tier list (and for the most part it's still very relevant) but with the fact that I play teamer games (2v2, 3v3 on Pangea / Skirmish / etc) I'd like to get some discussion going around it. Any feedback is welcome, please keep it civil. The biggest difference in team games is being at war from turn 1. There is no friendly scouting or agreements, so games erupt into conflict and end earlier. This changes the tier list to favor war more heavily. That said, here is the link:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wHvGmt4pDLA9XgXp9rYosjdrie2P2ar55jcq04FrIBk/edit?usp=sharing

 

[Wild_Woojsha]

Please note this is a rough draft and nothing is final. Civs are not ordered in the tiers even if they appear that way; everything is subject to change.

Everyone is familiar with Filthy's tier list (and for the most part it's still very relevant) but with the fact that I play teamer games (2v2, 3v3 on Pangea / Skirmish / etc) I'd like to get some discussion going around it. Any feedback is welcome, please keep it civil. The biggest difference in team games is being at war from turn 1. There is no friendly scouting or agreements, so games erupt into conflict and end earlier. This changes the tier list to favor war more heavily. That said, here is the link:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wHvGmt4pDLA9XgXp9rYosjdrie2P2ar55jcq04FrIBk/edit?usp=sharing

I'm surprised to see only Poland in the God tier and not the Huns and/or Mongolia. I thought both of those Civs would dominate a Teamer, does NQMOD nerf them that much? Poland only gets 3 social policies by the time a good Teamer match can be decided, there has to be something I am missing here...

 

[DrBigtime]

I'm still warming up to Mongolia being Tier 1, but I think it's inevitable; I've seen the power of the Keshiks. The Huns are slightly nerfed in NQMod (you can't get battering rams out of ruins) but in my opinion are (only) top tier on Pangea and god tier on skirmish. Again, no order within the tiers.

 

[DrBigtime]

Edited the list with your feedback and others from another site.

 

[stormtrooper412]

If you don't mind, why exactly are Poland god tier in a teamer MP game with war on since turn 1, other than the free policies they don't really have much going in the earliest game. And since most MP games don't really last long, as Poland you only get at most 2 free policies which are hardly game changing for the described setup.

Likewise, in the same setup, what exactly is the advantage of Arabia over Mongolia, they behave pretty much the same way. You can make a case for Greece vs Persia as they have a stronger Spearman replacement which can effectively be used for easier tributing, because you can't bank on timing your war with your golden age as Persia.

The lower tier civs could also use some shuffling as well

 

[beetle]

You can make a case for Greece vs Persia as they have a stronger Spearman replacement which can effectively be used for easier tributing, because you can't bank on timing your war with your golden age as Persia.

I didn't realize that the CS look to unit strength as opposed to raw numbers of units near them. Do you have the formula? Is one or two strength points, as compared to an extra unit, really significant? I am terrible at getting tribute, but have not really worked at it.

 

[DrBigtime]

If you don't mind, why exactly are Poland god tier in a teamer MP game with war on since turn 1, other than the free policies they don't really have much going in the earliest game. And since most MP games don't really last long, as Poland you only get at most 2 free policies which are hardly game changing for the described setup.

Likewise, in the same setup, what exactly is the advantage of Arabia over Mongolia, they behave pretty much the same way. You can make a case for Greece vs Persia as they have a stronger Spearman replacement which can effectively be used for easier tributing, because you can't bank on timing your war with your golden age as Persia.

The lower tier civs could also use some shuffling as well

1) Poland is still god tier to me for a few major reasons:

• Many games do not end around horsemen/chariot archers, and a runaway civ can still basically 1v3 a team who has been constantly at war for the whole game. If Poland is allowed even 3 era advancements it becomes a very big deal.
  
• Plains bias
  
• Their matchup vs Arabia/Mongolia. Arabia/Mongolia are terrifying but Poland is basically set up in every way to be able to deal with their unique abilities.
  
• Ducal stable. In games ruled by horses for many eras these things can be life changing.

2) Arabia is insanity in team games that don't end with chariots (And it's not like they can't build their own). They have an insane economy, they can fix all their team happiness issues with markets, they have one of the best units in the whole game for war (Camel Archer), and double oil if the game goes long enough is just the icing on the cake. Basically Mongolia is better strictly speaking about the "Knight power spike" (Arabia isn't far off), but at nearly any other point in the game Arabia is a better civ entirely.

3) Agree, I'm on the fence about Greece. With Persia, even with golden ages being hard to use that movement is godlike.

 

[DrBigtime]

I didn't realize that the CS look to unit strength as opposed to raw numbers of units near them. Do you have the formula? Is one or two strength points, as compared to an extra unit, really significant? I am terrible at getting tribute, but have not really worked at it.

I don't have the exact formula on hand but yes, it uses melee strength in the formula for tribute as well as the type of city state they are. (Militaristic civs for instance resist tribute more than others.) What this means is that early on scout archer archer may not be able to tribute a city state that a warrior spearman could due to the low melee combat numbers of the archers and relatively low number from the scout, even if the former combo might be able to attack and capture the city state more effectively than the latter.
Edit: It also uses the military demographics and whether or not anyone has pledged to protect them or not. If you're the highest military score in the game, tributing is easier.