Here's a teaser :
Teaser ...
- Thread starter Rik Meleet
- Start date
Is that a teaser because it's not really our starting position? If this is the real start then you're pretty generous with bonii. 
If it is our actual start then looks like a settler move is in order. No, I'm not
we can catch the whale by moving SE and that lets the wheat and cattle be shared if necessary.
If it is our actual start then looks like a settler move is in order. No, I'm not
we can catch the whale by moving SE and that lets the wheat and cattle be shared if necessary.
It is your real start.
zyxy
Warmongering Fool
DaveShack said:If it is our actual start then looks like a settler move is in order. No, I'm not
If we move SE than we'll no longer be on the river. I would settle in place, and (probably) forfeit the whale. Settling in place will let us use the gold hill for extra income.
We can irrigate the cattle to get +5 food, and settle another town somewhere up north that can take the floodplain wheat, and also get +5 food (using a forest or so). That's two 4-turn settler factories, the capital can probably be run at size 3-5, or at size 5-7 for a warrior-settler factory. The map is balanced, so we'll have to assume that the other teams get this too.
I did two small tests for the start:
1. First mine and road the wine, then irrigate and road the cattle
2. First irrigate and road the cattle, then road and mine the wine.
In both cases I used the build order curragh - warrior - settler. The curragh is ready to go on turn 6, warrior on 9, settler on 15 (3250BC) - the same for both cases.
In case 1, the city is at size 2 in 3250BC, with 7 food in the box, and total gold production: 103 @ 8 gpt (can probably get 2 more).
In case 2, the city size is the same, 10 food in the box, gold production is 109 @ 9 gpt. The worker will lose 1 turn (has to go back over the river). Shield production is slightly lower than in case 1, because the worker still has to finish the mine on the wine.
In both cases I needed to use a floodplain for two turns, so there is risk of disease.
Conclusion: case 2 is slightly better, but not much. Slightly more gold and food, at the price of a lost worker turn.
Nobody
Gangster
thats the best start in the world. Thats so lucky we just won the demogame
Octavian X
is not a pipe.
I'd be tempted to settle on the wine, so we can take advantage of the extra fish down the coast as well as the whale after Springfield's border expands.
zyxy
Warmongering Fool
Octavian X said:
That destroyes the food bonus from the wine...
Fish is a 2 food, 0 shields, 2 gold square until you get a harbor or a better government. Nothing special.
This never stops to amaze me. Why do people always think of moving the settler ? The rule-of-thumb with moving a settler is that you only consider moving your settler if your starting tile / starting location absolutely sucks. It doesn't in this case...
Rik Meleet said:
Don't worry, we're grateful to have such a rich local area.
The other big reason to make an initial move is when the start position causes a bonus to be lost. For example do we lose the gold bonus by settling in place? I don't actually know the answer on this one.
There is also the minor detail of whether it's better to have one tremendously good position or if two good / excellent positions is better.
Then test it .... You have sufficient time to copy the layout and start testing what actions are most beneficiary for your team's style of play.DaveShack said:
gert-janl
Alive!!!
You will lose the gold bonus from the hill if you settle at the initial starting point.
I could only consider moving to the hills SE, to keep contact with all bonuses ánd the whales, but we´d lose contact with the river then, so that´s no option.
The location is very good though, let´s just settle there and rule the world.
I could only consider moving to the hills SE, to keep contact with all bonuses ánd the whales, but we´d lose contact with the river then, so that´s no option.
The location is very good though, let´s just settle there and rule the world.
Have you tested it or is this your experience talking ?gert-janl said:
Nobody
Gangster
Why not move to the trees to the west. we gain the gold and lose the wheat we will get it back after the first cultural expasion
zyxy
Warmongering Fool
Rik Meleet said:
Is this a hint?
You are right of course. Care to join our team?
@ all: just trying to get this absolutely clear:
YOU DO NOT LOSE THE GOLD BONUS IF YOU SETTLE ON THE HILL.
I know this from experience, and tested it too
.Food bonusses are lost if you settle on them, gold and shield bonusses are not.
In fact, the gold bonus is effectively lost if you don't settle there, because the hill would hardly ever be used (only 1 food, and it takes forever to build road and mine).
You don't lose the gold bonus if you settle on it. I don't remember if its optimal (road bonus), but that won't matter since we will always be using it.
I say move the worker onto the cow or wheat, and unless something is incredibly crazy, we settle in place.
I say move the worker onto the cow or wheat, and unless something is incredibly crazy, we settle in place.
gert-janl
Alive!!!
Hmm, I really thought you'd lose that gold bonus. I'll test before talk next time! 
Let's just settle at the start!
Let's just settle at the start!
RegentMan
Deity
Well, I'm glad this argument is settled. 
