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Tech: Anyone able to stay ahead or keep even with the AI on Immortal?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by MykC, Dec 18, 2010.

  1. MykC

    MykC Warlord

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    I normally get rifles first but not for very long and they always get infantry before I do, and its not by a couple of turns it like by like 30.
     
  2. kamex

    kamex Emperor

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    Yes.

    Babylon. Beeline Writing, settle academy, buy library, build NC.

    30+ bulbs by turn 30 :D
     
  3. neilkaz

    neilkaz King

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    I've done that prepatch, but you don't have much production and are behind in expansion. I could catch up to a reasonable extent prepatch and the extra tech was really nice, but can you catch up post patch.

    What I am asking is how did this game look to you 100, 150 or 200 turns into it?

    .. thx .. neilkaz ..
     
  4. neilkaz

    neilkaz King

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    Immortal, small pangaea and I am playing as Alex. I am clearly behind in tech all along the way to 205 turns where I am taking a break. With this much map control, I'd be ahead in tech prepatch or at least equal.

    My relative tech situation is improving since, Wu, who was ahead DOW'd me and then soon denounced Monty. It then only cost me 112G and an irrelevent OB to get Monty to DOW her and he's actually be able to take at least one of her cities. RA's have helped me catch up somewhat.

    Lack of beaker overflow is nice, but it also speeds the AI's along. I think do to the change in beaker overflow that it is a must to stick and immediate specialist in any and every university and just leave them there almost no matter what.

    As I progress down the Rationalism tree, I know that my science will expand and catch up, but these AI's will soon be at tech levels where they can make some nasty weapons.

    .. neilkaz ..
     
  5. wurstburst

    wurstburst Prince

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    I'm playing an emperor game/pangea, leading in land area by a pretty big margin, but found myself falling behind on tech a little bit around turn 200 (2 AIs got to infantry about 15-20 turns before me). Struggling now to use my military advantage before it evaporates to advanced units that I can't gang up on. This never happened pre-patch.

    The patch has definitely made a difference. Will need to adapt to the new world order better in the next game.
     
  6. kamex

    kamex Emperor

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    Not finished the game yet.

    Yes production was and still is a bit pants. Mostly due to heavy grassland start though. I prefer plains because of the extra production.

    Still tech leading, by nearly 20% until late medieval, AIs starting to catch up now though.

    Also post patch is important as NC now gives +5 bulbs! Saved gold and bought a uni ASAP, then got GS to get rifling, then rifle rushed! :lol:
     
  7. neilkaz

    neilkaz King

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    Very nice !! I hope you were able to capture some cities and cripple a couple of AIs with those early rifles.

    My Immortal Greek game is going well as I continue to conquer Wu's cities and now have Monty and Rammy fighting each other. My tech is catching up as I am into the Rationalism SP tree and also my pop grows and every university gets a spec.

    I do have to try your Bab start. How many new cities did you make for your rifle production and what early SP tree? ( I went tradition in mine to try it and it is buffed, but I didn't bother with landed elite and built the wonder that does the same thing. Rarely have I been able to get so many wonders on Immortal, but 33% speed for them does help and is also helping Athens get many national wonders)

    .. neilkaz ..
     
  8. MykC

    MykC Warlord

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    I finding that I'm personally hitting rifles around turn 140. This is under the new conditions that doesn't allow policy saving so scientific revolution is not an option. I did this with Aztec and Greek. I'll see how fast I can do it was Babylon which I suspect to be faster.

    The key I'm finding to good tech is a large city, plain and simple. So tradition is a must for at least one point.

    The funny thing is I played a OCC on emperor and won via domination fairly easily but struggle so very much on Immortal, such a leap in difficulty due to the tech.
     
  9. neilkaz

    neilkaz King

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    My Immortal Greek game is going OK but I've had to be very careful. It is around turn 233 and I've been dog piled DOW'd by Monty and Rammy a few turns after they both made peace with each other and had earlier denounced me bcuz I am settling too many cities when all I am doing is puppetting most of Wu's cities since she DOW'd me and attacked me.
    She's down to two cities so I am unconcerned with her and made peace once I was denounced.

    Three artillery and a bunch of rifleman and a lancer and cav along with captured city fire and I am able to hold off their artillery, infantry and stuff and they are taking losses vs my CS pals although I may lose a city to them. Much of my lands with the artillery and GG and 33% friendly lands are a killing field for them.

    However, getting back on topic here. I clearly at least 20 turns behind in tech from where I'd have been prepatch while they are ahead if anything. I'll have my own infantry in a few turns as well as the SP that gets 1 science from each TP.

    This situation would be clearly winnable prepatch by me counterattacking AI and getting peace and them pounding the other AI. However, here my tech is worse, it is harder to take cities, the AI tech is ahead, and I have to fear Siam soon building the UN and/or later space ships as he's the most ahead in tech.

    Hopefully I can hang on for a few dozen turns with the TP science SP and catch up.

    .. neilkaz ..
     
  10. MykC

    MykC Warlord

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    I just noticed the observatory has a science slot now, it was probably in the patch notes but I missed that so, settling beside a mountain can be very important.

    I tried Babylon today and under ideal condition hit rifling around turn 110.
    I reached Mech Inf at around turn 200.
     
  11. neilkaz

    neilkaz King

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    Mech's at turn 200 on Immortal (so you just can't play Sim City and tech) is good. I will try Babs next game.

    But the $64 dollar question is, did you win that game or do you expect to easily win it now?

    .. neilkaz ..
     
  12. MykC

    MykC Warlord

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    I finished a won my first immortal game post patch using a similar Babylon strat as above. I think I built the library, then the great library then the national college. Its important to get as many wonders that contribute "scientist points" to generate early scientists pre-university.

    -I focused on a single city till around turn 70. The city was food focused. I took civil service before Steel.
    -I settle 3 other cities with in the next 10-15 turns spaced out decently but with in my territory.
    -I launched my first attack against an AI civ when I unlocked rifles. I had 5-6 rifles. At this time it was rifles w/a general vs muskets.
    -I think I had rifles at like turn 120

    So my tech choice was:
    Writing
    Steel
    Education
    Navigation (if beside a mountain)
    Rifling
    Scientific Thought
    Replaceable Parts
     
  13. alpaca

    alpaca King of Ungulates

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    I think you got lucky with the GL :lol:

    It's hit and miss but if you're not above re-starting the game if you miss, it's fine.
     
  14. neilkaz

    neilkaz King

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    I've never understood the big deal with GL and it is only 1 free tech. In almost every Immortal game that I've played (not all) some AI beelines for it and there's no chance for me to get it. Therefore I don't try for it, since I don't believe in restarting when beaten to a Wonder and will just consol myself with the added gold. If I have a calendar resource I go for Stonehenge sometimes and I can usually beat AI's (not always) to that and the nice 8 cpt and GE pt.

    Anyhow, a question about the free tech from GL. Must it be taken immediately or can it be saved and taken when ever you want?

    thx .. neilkaz ..
     
  15. MykC

    MykC Warlord

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    The GL is hit and miss, I would say they if you make the GL your priority you will get it 2 out 3 times. It also very conditional on whether to go for it or not. I basically have to have ideal conditionals, be able to settle on marble within a turn and still have the city with in tiles that will allow it grow, because if can't grow it won't have the citizens to complete the GL in a decent amount of time. Finally it really helps if I found a culture ruin to get me the first point in tradition early and grow that city fast.

    If you miss, the extra gold can actually be just what you need to rush buy something quite a few turns early then you could otherwise, so in some cases it can actually be a benefit or at least reduce the pain.

    You can't save the free tech, which I think you should be able to save until you've finished your next tech. I've generally been using it on Theocracy as its the best target normally if I bee-line for it. If I don't be line for it and see that no one has taken the GL by turn 50 or so I'll generally try for it then if I can unlock civil service with it.

    Yeah, there are certain wonders that are really risky such as:
    Stonehenge, The Great Library, The Oracle, The Great Wall and The Hanging Gardens. The hanging gardens is a wonder I don't think I've ever had the chance to build.

    I find that Egypt and Persia tend to go Wonder happy and unless you I have firm lead on Wonder production and science you can pretty much just give up on invest time into them unless its something very specific.
     
  16. Airey

    Airey Prince

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    for it to be a sound strategy, you need plans for both scenarios.
    Completiting GL with Babylon = rifle ~T120.
    what happens with you fail GL by 1 turn? can you describe your recovery?

    Most of the time, hammer used in GL is better used building another settler that early on. Considering you can only GL theology on Immort+. Planning to GL CS is just :lol: at this level (not knowing who's on the other continents)
     
  17. bryanw1995

    bryanw1995 Emperor

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    yeah, restarting due to missed wonder=fail. GL and Oracle are now marginally more valuable however since GS points are harder to come by. I agree that I wouldn't try for them anyway on immortal however unless I had easy marble access.
     
  18. MykC

    MykC Warlord

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    Missing the GL on Immortal doesn't mean hit the reset button, yeah you lose some turns which are valuable but there is a host of stuff we players can do further along to sway the game in our favor. Of course there are times where I am like well... if only I was there 5 turns early....

    But to be honest I'm actually reconsidering the value of the GL outside of Babylon. I definitely holds less value with other civs who only get the mere +1 GS point.
     
  19. neilkaz

    neilkaz King

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    I've found that I'm a favorite to get Stonehenge if I go for it quickly (sometimes as a beeline if I have calendar resources). Early Stonehenge is 4 monuments for the price of 2 and the GE pt doesn't hurt especially since GS are so hard to come by unless Babylon. As for GL, I have seen an AI (Immortal) get this on turn 23 !! Oracle I've rarely tried for and normally missed. I can't believe that I managed Great Wall in this game especially with Wu as an AI as she often builds it. I only went for it since I have the 33% bonus from the Tradition tree and was in a long GA (knew I could burn an upcoming unneeded GG to continue it) and there was no other wonder to build.

    Yeah..Ramses and Darius are wonder whores. I once took Persepolis around turn 220 and it had 11 wonders !!!

    My Greek game looks like a win now with only 3 civs left. Wu is ruined. Monty lost a city and a bunch of units and proposed a straight forward peace. As soon relations with him moved from guarded to friendly it took only 100G to get him to DOW Rammy and do some damage. I was able to take a few of Rammy's cities and his capital and with only a few units left I took an even peace.

    OK back on topic and it is turn 277 and I am able to get about 600 spt (don't know how to make those cute beaker symbols) so I am catching up quickly. Rammy hit the future era a few turns ago and I will hit it around turn 290 at the latest. I have RR's to everywhere so production is no problem and I have big map control and clearly am the dominant civ. All that remains is to make sure Rammy doesn't LAME me with the UN (which for some reason isn't built yet) and to tech and build up army for the battle to Monty's capital (seems easiest win even though I will need to take several cities enroute)

    I promise a major write up of this game and hopefully I can figure out how to take and post screen shots since I have many saves. (and..believe it or not you can still CC rush and take cities if you do it early)

    Back on topic. The AI's tech faster now and I think it is due to no beaker overflow losses. The "fixed" beaker overflow helps humans also, but the enormous GS nerfs slow us down. In similar games post patch, I'd often have some GDR's in queue by now and be able to buy the occasional one and this meant game over soon.

    I agree with those who say that this game, post patch, is at least one difficulty level harder.

    .. neilkaz ..
     
  20. Sneaks

    Sneaks Brooklyn Bum

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    (by the way, to make :c5science:, it is :_c5science_: without the underscores between the colons.)
     

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