Tech choice

[Core Imposter]

In general if choosing between Engineering and Guilds which route would you take and why?

 

[Izuul]

Engineering b/c trebs are OP. +1 road movement is a nice bonus.

 

[rfcfanatic]

I find both techs extremely useful and usually take both. When at war, I choose Guilds first so my knights could make a decisive difference on the battlefield. But I still need castles to help my war economy with additional trade routes and pikemen to protect my knights.

 

[Core Imposter]

I am playing with no tech brokering which means tech trades are hard to come by. Which of these two techs are more valuable in this respect?

 

[MrKlew]

Personally I'd probably take engineering unless I was having a lot of economic problems in which case guilds leads to all the attractive economic techs.

If you want to know what is going to be the best trade bait I'd look and see how many AIs have each tech and research the one with the least number having it. Or research the one the AI with the tech you want doesn't have.

 

[CreeDakota]

I assume you are targetting these techs because of an active or imminent war; If that is the case I think Engineering is a superior war tech. Trebs rock and knights are easy to counter. A stack of trebs + stack defense+anything to take cities= a slow methodical march taking over enemy cities. A pile or knights=massive loses versus fortified longbows and spears.

No tech brokering I think makes engineering even stronger as the AI often target engineering before guilds; so the value of trading around Guilds is lower under your scenario.

The answer changes if you are not thinking about immediate war; Guilds unlocks better tech path than engineering such as the Economics GM.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Generally you don't want to go down this path unless trades are off outright, although in some isolated/few civ situations it can make sense (especially with leaders like toku). Engineering is much better for direct warfare; you have a better counter to enemy knights and a siege unit that actually has survival chances against things you'll fight.

 

[elmurcis]

I also like Notre Dam... Nice building if have big land mass.. 2 more whips available

 

[jarhead_leif]

There is so much to choose from engineering than guilds.
Unless you are playing peacefully and you need extra health and wealth, with those grocers.

 

[Mylene]

Depends what difficulty, with a good Emperor start i.e. you could just take over most or all AIs with Knights.
They are the easiest unit if you dun play Deity and probably Imm too, if you beeline them.

 

[Core Imposter]

How do you post a save?

 

[ohjames]

Use the 'Manage Attachments' button in the panel which appears when you click the Post Reply button. (You won't see the attachment manager if you're just using the Quick Reply panel.)

 

[ohjames]

Knights can be great for rolling soft neighbours - like, if your neighbour isn't a unit-spammer, and your neighbour doesn't have heavily promoted Longbows or (ugh) Pikes. If they're going to put up any resistance I would rather have Trebs, though.

 

[Core Imposter]

Feedback on this spot would be welcomed.

View attachment dutch AD-0560.CivBeyondSwordSave

Short summary: Justinian crossed early in the game to attack Wang Kon and did enough damage to permanently weaken the Korean. Seeing that Justinian had no ivory I stayed small and built cottages in flood plains and headed to alphabet, backtracked to archery, bulbed math and researched construction. Then chopped a lot of timber for cats and war elephants. Took out Justinian over one long and one short war.

Meanwhile the Greeks attacked me once weakly but were quickly destroyed. War ended quickly but later in the game moved a huge stack to my border. I bribed the Germans to declare on them and Alexander reversed course and beat up on Bismark. The Chinese joined in, so Bismark is going to soon be consigned to the waste bin of history.

Meanwhile Capac shows up in a fishing boat from the west, ahead in tech.

A fight with Judaism is in the cards.

Note that with tech brokering off and random personalities I have no clue what anyone is going to research or be able to trade. Just traded Wang Kon two fat techs and 750 gold for Feudalism. The brings him up to par but I have no way of knowing what he is researching or how to set up a trade. He could be researching Drama, Music, Compass, Theology, or Civil Service. I really covet Civil Service at this point.

 

[lymond]

Wow...that is a really slow tech pace.

and built cottages in flood plains

that is not what I'm seeing. Not sure why you farmed all those flood plains. Utrect should be your Bureau cap, all cottages, and you should actually have Bureau well before now. Not sure what you are doing with techs. (It's fine to farm FPs in a city with few of them that will have a different specialization, but Utrecht screams cottages and Bureau)

Why not wipe the continents? Mara is so easy.

Put espionage on what AI, usually a good techer like Capac and then you can see what he is teching. That's all you need to know really to determine tech pace. otherwise, it's pretty easy to see if AI's are teching something once you have Currency.

 

[Core Imposter]

Wow...that is a really slow tech pace.

I thought I had a good tech rate early, but basically had to cut it off during the long war.

that is not what I'm seeing. Not sure why you farmed all those flood plains.

I was referring to the early cottages between Amsterdam and Utrecht. I mixed in farms for growth to whip both units and infrastructure. Would you cottage all flood plains?

Utrect should be your Bureau cap, all cottages, and you should actually have Bureau well before now. Not sure what you are doing with techs. (It's fine to farm FPs in a city with few of them that will have a different specialization, but Utrecht screams cottages and Bureau)

You suggest I move my capital?

Why not wipe the continents? Mara is so easy.

Easy, so I hear, but not for me yet.

Put espionage on what AI, usually a good techer like Capac and then you can see what he is teching. That's all you need to know really to determine tech pace. otherwise, it's pretty easy to see if AI's are teching something once you have Currency.

Now this is a good point I've not thought about. I was trying to keep all of my opponents visible on the power bar. I've only recently gotten courthouses whipped to give me enough EPs to do something with.

As far as not having Civil Service, I researched both Metal Casting and Machinery and could have gone for Civil Service instead but I was trying to figure out a way to get trades. With tech brokering off and random personalities on, and opponents unwilling to trade because of religious bias and warfare, the pickings have been slim. I am sure others could have done better.

Obviously I am not very good at this, yet.

 

[cseanny]

Wow...that is a really slow tech pace.

Seems a bit slow . Hey MisterCooper, try to work more improved tiles and try to balance expansion with research a bit better? I just happen to be playing a mess around game with William, albeit on Emperor till exactly 600 AD, 1 turn before I start my GA to grab more GM for upgrades. Take a look around my save and you'll see by working good tiles early you can put yourself in a better position.

I'd have to think, in your game, if you started working good tiles earlier you could easily multiply your research by 6-7x what it's currently at.

 

[Core Imposter]

My question was about tech line, from here.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Depends what difficulty, with a good Emperor start i.e. you could just take over most or all AIs with Knights.
They are the easiest unit if you dun play Deity and probably Imm too, if you beeline them.

IMO they're bad for immortal too. Better to stick with your trusted cuirassers or go to rifling for cavalry and/or (preferably and) draft rifles.

On immortal AI will get feudalism at around 500 BC sometimes, and multiple AI often have it by 1 AD often. While you can, with optimization, field some knights and take some cities before that, it just doesn't make sense when you can pound people throughout the middle ages with cuirassers or better without waiting too much longer. Knights definitely aren't the "easy" unit on immortal or deity, with the possible exception of Byzantine's version, which while STILL nowhere as good as a cuirasser is at least quite effective until castles/pikes, whereas stock knights struggle vs the earlier longbows.

 

[Mylene]

But the fun on Imm comes from trying different tactics
Why would i wait for Rifles if i know it's an auto win vs. all but Deity AIs ~~