Tech Queue Discussion: What do we research after writing?

[Octavian X]

Well, there's the $64,000 question (or, as in our case, the 64g). What do we look into after writing?

As a reminder, we discover writing in 10 turns.

Looking at old polls and discussion, I see a few possible paths.

1. Literature
2. Republic (after Phil and CoL)
3. Currency

That last informational poll I took suggests Literature, an option that just about tied with Republic. In my last official poll, currency came in second, after writing.

Well, which one?

Because of the Great Library, my own opinion is that Literature should be our next tech.

 

[Cyc]

That's a good idea Oct. But which of our three cities is our Wonder building city? The Settler factory, the Worker factory or the Military base? To me Lit is about as useful Wonder-wise as Mysticism. It would be great to have the Oracle or the Great Library. But where are we going to build them? I can see Lit for Libraries, but Temples are probably more important than Libraries are right now. Let's go for Currency and build Marketplaces, then we can go for the Republic.

 

[zorven]

Cyc makes a good point. Do we have the base of cities we need to turn one of them into a Wonder City? Not at this point. Will we in the near future? Probably not. So, of the choices you list, I would probably lean towards Currency. The Marketplaces will enhance tax revenue and help with happiness once we get some luxuries hooked up.

 

[Will_518]

I say go for republic, that would give us quite a economical boost. but that's 3 teches away, while currency is only one. I don't think literature is that important right now, like cyc said we don't have a city that's free atm. We can prebuild GL anyway, it doesn't make too much difference.

I'm leaning towards republic. CoL, then Phil, then Rep.

 

[RoddyVR]

i agree with the currency thing. love them marketplaces.
between the dyes and wine, we've got two luxuries prety much guaranteed already. so any others will be much improved by marketplaces. and iirc currency isnt something the AI seems to go for often so we could whore it to a few of our "friends" later.

I'm leaning towards republic. CoL, then Phil, then Rep.

um.... you've got us researching republic twice. lol.

 

[Rik Meleet]

Or we can try another path; the wheel. Iron is hard to get, thus having swordsmen is a hard and difficult goal. Fortunately there is another good tech for having good fighters; the wheel. Perhaps we do get lucky this time and get some horses close, which allows us faster units for scouting and some force. It seems our north-east is bigger than we first thought and fast units can explore faster.

 

[Octavian X]

I hadn't thought about the wheel - there may be horses in them thar grasslands. It's a nice and easy tech to research, too.

As much as I'd like to have a nice poll, my own negligence means there won't be one. Since I won't be back home soon enough tomorrow to post proper instructions, my plan is to leave our next tech to the discresion of the President for the time being, based on this discussion.

Right now, currency is in favor. I ask that further posts clearly identify which tech you support - changes of mind are allowed. My instructions will ask that, in the event we finish writing, the President decide, based on this discussion, which tech to research next.

 

[donsig]

Wouldn't we trade for the wheel? Wasn't the idea to research difficult techs then trades for cheap ones? Let's stay with the plan folks.

Any idea how long it will take to get any of these techs? Will we research at minimum or maximum science rate? Give us a little infor so we can make an informed decision, please.

 

[Chieftess]

Well, if you look at the "What will the AI research next" guide (It's in the War Academy section), The Wheel and Warrior Code are pretty high up on the AI's list (cheap (as in no resources) offensive unit, one has a resource AND a cheap offensive unit). Something like 163 points. So, the AI will research those first. Currency is usually researched last, or one of the last. Are we still going for 20K culture? (Doesn't seem like it with our start -- an early Collosus would've done us wonders, along with the Great Library and Oracle (cheaper 4 cpt wonder)). Back in DG1, we cascaded to the Great Library (and that kind of helped, since we were able to focus our gpt on immortals). Here, it could help us focus on luxuries and/or settler/spears. I'd probably go with literature (it's also a good trading tech if we manage to stay up in techs).

 

[Rik Meleet]

I am only pointing at another tech possible. The wheel is definetaly not my choice. I'd go for currency.

Oct: I do agree with donsig; some research-length information please.

 

[tao]

Republic (like all government techs) is expensive to research. And therefore we should go for it. Currency will not buy us republic, but republic will
a) bring us out of the agonizing despotism
b) buy us currency and a lot of other techs.

If we go for the Great Library (I wouldn't do it in a normal game, but it might be the way to go in a demo game), we could prebuild with Pyramids or Colossus until we can trade for literature.

Ceterum censeo: we need a granary in DR to have a settler pump to increase our research capability.

 

[America444]

i say we research philosophy and then get currency free.

 

[Furiey]

Originally Posted by Chieftess
Well, if you look at the "What will the AI research next" guide (It's in the War Academy section), The Wheel and Warrior Code are pretty high up on the AI's list

So what will the AI research next? If you look in the discussion thread for this guide you’ll find an Excel spreadsheet by Ambiorix which will help with the calculation. The AI’s research rate is one of the factors in this, so I’ve assumed that Babylon with their 5 cities can research a bit faster than we can, Russia very slightly slower (only 3 cities and jungle)

This gives:

                    Babylon          Russia
Tech              Value  Order  ¦  Value  Order
The Wheel         43.33    1    ¦       -
Iron Working      36.22    4    ¦       -
Mathematics       12.67         ¦       -
Writing           36.67    2    ¦  42.00    1
Horseback Riding  23.07    5    ¦  31.60    4
Mysticism               -       ¦  38.00    3
Construction      15.27    7    ¦  17.40    7
Currency           7.33         ¦  10.00
Philosophy        14.22         ¦  21.33    6
Code of Laws      10.53         ¦  14.80
Literature        16.53    6    ¦  20.80    5
Map Making        51.11    3    ¦  54.67    2
Polytheism         7.11         ¦  10.67
Republic           4.09         ¦   6.13
Monarchy           8.77         ¦  11.15

The Value column is the value given by the spreadsheet – the higher the value the more likely it is to be researched, the Order column presents the most likely order of research, accounting for what techs a civ has.

I have looked at the sensitivity to the research rate, and although the numbers change a bit the only difference made to the relative values is that if Russia can research faster, Mysticism and Writing become much closer in value.

There is also a random factor involved, so the numbers are only a guide.

This correctly predicted that the Russians would go for the Wheel (I didn’t get this info ready in time to post before the last session though)

Of course trades can change this order – if we trade them Writing they will both go for Map Making next.

We'll be waiting a while if we want them to research Currency though!

 

[Furiey]

So how quickly can we research? You’ve asked for info – here it is. I’ve used Grey Fox’s Tech calculator – another useful tool found in these forums here - http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38631

The following table gives the number of turns to research at different research rates for the potential next techs. I’ve not included the techs available for trade.

      Const.  Curr.  Phil.   CoL    Lit   Map M  Poly. Repub. Spare gpt
100%   40      34     13     21     21     26     26    40       0
 90%           36     14     23     23     27     27             1
 80%           40     17     28     28     33     33             4
 70%                  18     30     30     36     36             5
 60%                  24     40     40     40     40             8
 50%                  24                                         8
 40%                  27                                         9
 30%                  40                                        12
 20%                                                            13
 10%                                                            16

NB: Once I got to 40 turns I did not reduce the rate any lower – so in practice the research rate could be dropped further still and still achieve 40 turns giving more free gpt and/or allow slider use for luxuries without slowing research.

These research times may be reduced as we build more cities.

Republic requires both Code of Laws and Philosophy (neither of which are top of the AI’s priority list), so researching at our current maximum rate we would be talking 82 turns for Republic.

If we wanted something quick to trade to the AI then Philosophy (edited to correct from Currency) would be top.

 

[truckingpete]

I say go for currency so we can get a good econmy and to make more gold...

 

[Lance]

I would definetely go for republic, even if it took a while.

 

[donsig]

Why research currency at 100% to get it in 34 turns when we could research republic at the minimum science rate, get it in 40 turns (six more turns) and rake in the gold?

I vote we research republic.

 

[RoddyVR]

um, wouldnt republic take 120 turns at this point? we still have phil and code of law to get before we can even try it.
or am i missing something?

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by RoddyVR
um, wouldnt republic take 120 turns at this point? we still have phil and code of law to get before we can even try it.
or am i missing something?

No, you're not missing anything. But it wouldn't need to take 120 turns since we could research the needed techs at maximum science (and maybe pick one or two up via trade) to shorten the time to republic.

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

We need to go for Literature. Being a wonder enabling tech, it holds a lot of value with the AI. If we get it, and still have not decent wonder city to go with, then we can trade it for just as a high a value as Republic.