Tech speed seems too fast

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Realism Invictus' started by pi4t, Dec 14, 2020.

  1. pi4t

    pi4t Warlord

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    I'm playing my first game since the 3.5 update, and I'm finding the rate I'm researching technologies seems too quick compared to the speed at which I'm able to build things. I'm playing on Monarch on realistic speed, and am in the mid-classical era. The year is 232BC (turn 418). I'm able to research a cutting-edge technology (water pump, the only one which I'm not getting tech diffusion for) in 8 turns, but even my most productive city would take 7 turns to make an aqueduct. The rest would take significantly longer. This means that any buildings which don't give the one thing I need most in a city don't get built at all, which has rather made me lose interest in the tech tree. Let alone building a wonder. I know most technologies give benefits beside buildings (water pump, for example, letting me improve food production by building farms everywhere) but that doesn't really excite me. Hammer bonuses that aren't linked to buildings seem rare, commerce bonuses just increase my research rate even more, and food bonuses seem worse than useless because I'm pushing my happiness caps already and unhappiness leads to revolutions.

    The problem is made worse because I'm rather behind technologically. Some other civilisations have already reached the medieval era (in 232BC)! Now, I know why I'm behind - early on, when this started happening, I decided to tank my economy by settling a large number of cities over my whole island, since I wasn't really making use of the techs I was researching and didn't feel I needed an advanced military at that point. I still had plenty of stuff to build during the time it took to recover financially, and I'm now catching up on the other civilisations rapidly, so I think this was a good call. But it does exaggerate this problem, since I'm blitzing through the tech tree with a new tech every 4 turns or so, and most of the buildings I research aren't being made.

    It's also been made worse by my civilisation being rather commerce focussed. There's not really much I could have done about that - I have a lot of water and a lot of flatlands, and not many hills for mines or chances for craftsmen. My leader is Christian IV (Seafaring/Industrious), who I picked for the industrious trait to try to stop this happening. But as it happens I've been able to make use of the Seafaring bonus nearly everywhere, and the Industrious bonus hardly at all so far.

    Is it intended that many buildings you research will simply not be made in the early stages of the game? I'm guessing not, given the AIs seem to be ahead of the real life timeline too? Whether intentional or not, it's too fast for me. Is there a way I can slow down research speed without reducing the speed of anything else in the game?
     
  2. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

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    What game settings (map size, custom options etc.) do you use? It can vary greatly depending on this.
     
  3. pi4t

    pi4t Warlord

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    I'm using a standard size map with the default 9 civilisations; I picked the European ones. I'm using one of the standard scripts bundled with the pack - RI Planet Generator. I chose the map settings to create an archipelago (9 continents, coast varies a lot, continent size may vary, 1 tile islands allowed), and picked a cool climate (it seemed appropriate as I was playing Scandanavia), but otherwise I left all the settings at their default (other than turning off time victories). Despite making an archipelago, I haven't made any cities that weren't on my own island, which was large enough to comfortably fit 7 cities. Nor, as far as my ships can tell, have any of the other civilisations, although there have been some military conquests.

    My island is near the equator, and is (was) mostly a combination of jungle, forest and grassland, with surprisingly few hills and a single big river in the middle. The rest of the map seems to be roughly similar in terms of hills, although of course it's hard to tell without spoiling myself in Worldbuilder.
     
  4. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

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    One more thing - it isn't clear from your first sentence whether you're playing 3.5 or SVN. One of the main differences would be different default settings - for instance, do you play with revolutions on?
     
  5. pi4t

    pi4t Warlord

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    I'm playing 3.5, hotfix 7. Revolutions are indeed on, which has significantly influenced my game. I haven't actually seen a revolution (other than at the start of the classical era, when I didn't understand the system and messed up, and then reverted to an earlier save) but avoiding them has significantly influenced what I've been building.

    Edit: Correction: I apparently forgot to install the hotfix and am doing so now.
     
  6. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

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    Since later hotfixes Revolutions shouldn't be on by default anymore; but anyway, I will look into dynamically slowing down tech speed - a simple global modifier won't do, since individual games can vary greatly.
     
  7. pi4t

    pi4t Warlord

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    Why was Revolutions turned off, if you don't mind me asking? Are there balance problems with it or something, or does it confuse the AI?
     
  8. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

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    It mostly confuses players, as observation shows. Also adds a lot of micromanagement. It can still be turned on, but it is off by default now.
     
  9. 2popbulb

    2popbulb Chieftain

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    If you slow down tech speed then space victory will be impossible to achieve on higher difficulties. Even now it is hard to do it without turning time victory off. I'm playing with increased tech cost for having more cities option enabled.
     
  10. [Y]

    [Y] Warlord

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    To better get an idea of how fast you were researching, can you provide how many cities you had, what was your research per turn, and what was your open-borders research bonus for the given tech?
     
  11. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

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    I believe I found a solution, implemented in the latest SVN, that will slow down overall tech speeds in games where these are too fast while leaving most others untouched. Techs of further eras start much more expensive and get cheaper with the passage of time (literally, of game years) - so if one gets ahead of their perceived age (such as starts researching Medieval techs before 400 AD), they will find their progress slower - but again, this will only affect the techs researched significantly before their time. Should ensure more consistent tech progress speed irrespective of starting conditions, as this is basically a self-correcting system. In my test games, the scenarios where tech is normally slower are much more consistent progress-wise with the ones where it is usually quicker.
     
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  12. pi4t

    pi4t Warlord

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    I had a total of 7 cities. Well, technically at the time of writing the post I had 9, but two of them had just been founded a few turns ago and are still only just breaking even at best. The tech I mentioned (water pump) had no tech diffusion bonus; in fact, that was why I picked that one for my example. My research per turn is 199 at 60% research, which is the highest I can set it without going into deficit. At 100% research I'm at 324 research and -112 gold; at 0% I have 14 research and 164 gold. I've attached my save game if you want to see more details. (Please excuse the incoming Roman invasion and my woeful lack of preparation for it!)

    Note that the figures I gave are calculated with hotfix 7 installed, while I was playing the game prior to that point without hotfixes.

    Edit: I'm also a little further forward than I was when I posted my original post, having just started the Medieval era (currently researching paper). I overwrote the save, sorry.
     

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  13. 2popbulb

    2popbulb Chieftain

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    My problem with tech speed is that it's too fast early on but too slow when I research Indusrial/Modern Era techs. I'm able to research Shipyards and build Carrack in 600-700 AD but in the late 20th century I don't have Computers or Advanced Flight. Most of other civs don't even have Radio or Combustion Engine.
     
  14. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

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    Then you likely use some rather exotic game settings.
     

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