Tech trading needs adjustments

[CppMaster]

Still, those buildings reduce help with poverty

 

[stii]

That is true but again it seems a bit odd that you are mostly building them to provide happyiness rather than to make money. Money is a lot more useful in this mod it is just those buildings aren't a good way of generating it.

 

[azum4roll]

For trading in general, I think the AIs should value some of the stuff you give them at 0 if they really don't need it, or even IMPOSSIBLE for luxuries in some cases.

 

[CppMaster]

When an AI doesn't need a luxury? When it has 100% happiness? It could still want a luxury for a small price for a buffer or to prevent someone else to buy it.

 

[azum4roll]

You won't want a luxury when you're happy and you don't have a CS quest or WLTKD request for the lux. Better save the gold for when you actually need them.

 

[CppMaster]

I wouldn't mind getting it for a small price for reasons stated before. Also, later it may not be available. BTW, do you get golden age points for happiness above 100%? How does golden age points accumulate with this new % happiness?

 

[azum4roll]

Since CS and cities never ask for the lux you already have, it's preferred to not get the lux to raise the odds that the eventual request is an accessible one. At least that's what I always do.

 

[CppMaster]

Good point!

 

[a3kov]

AIs will regularly give 3-5 gpt for each 1

Sometimes if they need it badly need it they pay even 8-10gpt.

I don't feel tech trading is exploitative. It's just a part of the diplomacy and we just have to accept that human players will always be better at diplo than AIs.
What we could adjust is make AIs more willing to trade with each other. Currently many AIs even have trouble to be friendly to each other and spend time in useless wars because "my neighbor stole CS from me, I want to crush him! Arrrrrghhh!", instead of developing their infrastructure and improving trade.

I think if AI start to tech trade often, it will feel less exploitative, and most players will find a hard time to sell any tech, unless they are the first to research it.

 

[CppMaster]

Trading tech needs some kind of trade-off, because selling tech to underdogs is just a lot of free money without any disadvantage. I don't know, what the trade off could be, though... temporal penalty to science generation, because some scientist will be busy explaining the tech to the buyer? It's also weird that in just 1 turn a civ can get multiple techs instantaneously.

 

[a3kov]

I don't like penalizing tech trade. What should happen in an ideal scenario, other AIs should sell to them before the player, if they are in good relationship.
Currently I don't think AI's trade with each other at all. Is there any evidence for that ?

 

[CppMaster]

IIRC, tech trade is on by default, while research agreements are disabled. Does that mean that tech trade is more balanced and less broken than research agreements? I don't think so, because tech trade is far more exploitative than research agreements. IMHO research agreements are fine, because they require a DoF and maintaining until it's over to get a reward. Both sides get research boost after a while, contrary to tech trade which is instant. If the research boost is too much, it could be easily tweaked, but it would be way harder to fix tech trading. It would have much more sense if tech trading at least required a DoF, like research agreements do. Why isn't it the case?

 

[a3kov]

IMHO research agreements are fine, because they require a DoF and maintaining until it's over to get a reward

And if you sell tech without DoF for gpt, you can get a random DoW and lose it. Happens pretty often.

 

[CppMaster]

No, you don't lose anything. At worst AI get a tech for free, which is pretty irrelevant if it's an underdog.
It's debatable if it really happens often. It doesn't happen to me.

//edit: let's not forget that DoW during DoF results in major diplo penalty.

 

[a3kov]

I have seen low performing AIs do much better after they get more techs. So there's still price to pay - they may become your competitors. AIs that are behind so much that nothing will help them, usually don't even have enough money to buy anything. But I agree that it's pretty safe for the player. In my last CV game I was even selling late game techs to my strong competitors because I was sure that I will get CV faster then them SV.

 

[stii]

It is also even more broken to sell techs to your vassals. On the higher levels the AI will get a big flat bonus for going up ages. So you an take all their money and sell them techs, then they will get more money and you can sell them even more tech. If you have a DoF you can take absurd amounts off them.