Tech Trading vs. Research Agreements

[attorneyatlol]

Why were research agreements removed from the CBP in favor of tech trading? What are the effects of allowing tech trading over research agreements?

I understand tech trading was a part of Civ4. I also recently watched Acken's Rome LP where he disabled tech trading in favor of research agreements but I didn't fully understand his reasons. Guess I'm just trying to get a better understanding of the impact on the game of having tech trading instead of research agreements.

 

[Wario Mario]

Why were research agreements removed from the CBP in favor of tech trading? What are the effects of allowing tech trading over research agreements?

I understand tech trading was a part of Civ4. I also recently watched Acken's Rome LP where he disabled tech trading in favor of research agreements but I didn't fully understand his reasons. Guess I'm just trying to get a better understanding of the impact on the game of having tech trading instead of research agreements.

Research agreements are kinda useless.

First of all, you need a DoF to use them. Secondly, not just you, but your AI ally need to be able to pay the entrance price, and the AI almost never can afford it because they spend, spend spend (nothing you can do to ensure your ALLY has the money). Third, tech trading is much more exciting and entertaining to do - the only real problem with it is it comes so darn late in the game, compared to research agreements which I believe can always be done.

Almost every time this gets brought up, the Research agreements master race shows up and derails the thread so no discussion can be done. Let's hope this is an exception.

 

[Putmalk]

Hi attorneyatlol,

When I first made C4DF I foresaw people not liking Tech Trading. You have the option to disable it and reenable Research Agreements in the advanced options.

EDIT: misread the question. As for specific reasons, I don't have any. O_O

 

[Wodhann]

Research agreements only benefit the person already ahead in tech. It's really one-sided.

 

[attorneyatlol]

I thought the amount of science gained was anchored by the lowest producer so the higher science partner doesn't just get further ahead.

Research agreements also seem to benefit those with friends and money, which not everyone will have. Haven't done much tech trading so I don't know what limitations there are on that. But I'm sure it has implications for the game that I don't fully appreciate. That's what I'm trying to figure out.

 

[Funak]

I thought the amount of science gained was anchored by the lowest producer so the higher science partner doesn't just get further ahead.

Research agreements also seem to benefit those with friends and money, which not everyone will have. Haven't done much tech trading so I don't know what limitations there are on that. But I'm sure it has implications for the game that I don't fully appreciate. That's what I'm trying to figure out.

Research agreements are anchored by the lowest producer, meaning it's way better for the guy with fewer cities, that's about it.

I'm personally not a huge fan of research-agreements, I do like the ability to transmute gold into science that they provide you but they have quite a few problems of their own.

On the other hand Tech-trading is really stupid and I would never dream of playing with it enabled (no offense Putmalk)

 

[Putmalk]

Research agreements are anchored by the lowest producer, meaning it's way better for the guy with fewer cities, that's about it.

I'm personally not a huge fan of research-agreements, I do like the ability to transmute gold into science that they provide you but they have quite a few problems of their own.

On the other hand Tech-trading is really stupid and I would never dream of playing with it enabled (no offense Putmalk)

No offense taken, it's an optional playstyle imported from Civ 4, not like I designed it with my heart and soul, I mostly handled AI evaluation.

Civ 5's version of vassalage, however... with the new upcoming updates, I might take it personal...

 

[Funak]

No offense taken, it's an optional playstyle imported from Civ 4, not like I designed it with my heart and soul, I mostly handled AI evaluation.

Civ 5's version of vassalage, however... with the new upcoming updates, I might take it personal...

I didn't think you were shallow enough to take it personally, but some people are so I figured I'd apolygize in advance anyways, just to be safe .

You're doing great work by the way looking forward to it.

 

[Atlas627]

Research Agreements do 2 things: they allow good Diplomacy with economy to translate into Science, and they promote peace.

Tech Trading does 2 things: they allow good economies with Diplomacy to translate into Science, and they allow good science with diplomacy to translate into economy.


I see plenty of RAs when I play, and I find them very useful. I don't personally like Tech Trading very much since a) it comes so late and b) its so hard to evaluate what each tech is worth to me in terms of other goods.

So I play with both on. I think RAs are a much better designed mechanic since it actually converts different types of things (diplomatic friendship) into new types of things (science) at different ratios (the science is worth less to the tech leader since it is proportionally less of his beaker income). Tech Trading converts yields to science and vice versa which is already everywhere in the game anyway.

 

[phantomaxl1207]

Tech Trading comes too late for me to care about it. That's my reason for using RAs.

 

[Putmalk]

Tech Trading comes too late for me to care about it. That's my reason for using RAs.

It used to be Education, I wonder why it was moved later into Industrial.

 

[Funak]

It used to be Education, I wonder why it was moved later into Industrial.

Probably for the same reason that most people disable it, because they are afraid of the AI giving each other free techs.
The AI tend to offer you peanuts for your high-tech technologies, a lot, so I guess people are afraid that other AI would accept these deals. (I'm talking 3 gpt for industrial era techs)

 

[phantomaxl1207]

Probably for the same reason that most people disable it, because they are afraid of the AI giving each other free techs.
The AI tend to offer you peanuts for your high-tech technologies, a lot, so I guess people are afraid that other AI would accept these deals. (I'm talking 3 gpt for industrial era techs)

The few times I've used (like 5 monthes ago) it I've had the AI give me actually good deals 20 - 50 GPT.

 

[Gazebo]

Probably for the same reason that most people disable it, because they are afraid of the AI giving each other free techs.
The AI tend to offer you peanuts for your high-tech technologies, a lot, so I guess people are afraid that other AI would accept these deals. (I'm talking 3 gpt for industrial era techs)

I don't see this, at all. Perhaps months ago, but this hasn't been an issue in some time.

Putmalk, I moved it back for flavor reasons. It makes more sense for industrial/modern techs to be tradeable (as they're usually 'things,' like combustion, not ideas, like theology).

G

 

[Der_Zorn_gottes]

I am not a huge fan of the research agreements, but I hated tech trading so much in civ IV that I wouldn't touch a similar concept with a pole any more.

 

[Putmalk]

I don't see this, at all. Perhaps months ago, but this hasn't been an issue in some time.

Putmalk, I moved it back for flavor reasons. It makes more sense for industrial/modern techs to be tradeable (as they're usually 'things,' like combustion, not ideas, like theology).

G

Nevertheless for game play purposes it is now at Scientific Theory

 

[Funak]

I am not a huge fan of the research agreements, but I hated tech trading so much in civ IV that I wouldn't touch a similar concept with a pole any more.

Pretty much this, tech-trading is plain stupid, research-agreements could certainly use some work, but I'm never willingly going to use tech-trading.

 

[Wodhann]

I don't like research agreements because of the symmetry of it. Imagine if in Settlers of Catan you had the same thing. You agreed with one player to pay one iron each so that in 3 turns both get 3 resources (the players with least points gets a bit more). That doesn't really change the game in any way, the person winning will remain winning.

 

[Atlas627]

I don't like research agreements because of the symmetry of it. Imagine if in Settlers of Catan you had the same thing. You agreed with one player to pay one iron each so that in 3 turns both get 3 resources (the players with least points gets a bit more). That doesn't really change the game in any way, the person winning will remain winning.

If all players all made agreements with all players, then yes. But that doesn't happen. The person who was leading in Science =/= the person with the most friends.

And as I mentioned before, the RA science is less useful to the leader since it is proportionally less of his income.

 

[Acken]

Why were research agreements removed from the CBP in favor of tech trading? What are the effects of allowing tech trading over research agreements?

I understand tech trading was a part of Civ4. I also recently watched Acken's Rome LP where he disabled tech trading in favor of research agreements but I didn't fully understand his reasons. Guess I'm just trying to get a better understanding of the impact on the game of having tech trading instead of research agreements.

My reasons have more or less been already explained in that thread. I dislike the mechanic. It's a mechanic that encourage you to pick techs based on who doesn't have it rather than your own need. We all remember how Civ4 teching came down to picking the cultural techs first. It also makes you snowball even more.

However, in CBP it's not as present as in civ4 however because it comes way later.