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Tech Tree Discussion

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by Vokarya, Apr 11, 2012.

  1. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    5,164
    I thought I would create a thread for posting tech tree ideas, suggestions, questions, and anything else. I'll start with this: I don't understand the current Constitution technology. Why is it in the Medieval Era? I think it's supposed to represent the Magna Carta, but if that's what the technology is for, then the name doesn't really fit.

    I suggest renaming the existing Constitution tech to Charters and create a new Constitution tech:
    Location: x50, y5
    Renaissance Era
    Prerequisites: Nationalism + Social Contract
    Move Thomas Jefferson and the Jail and Maximum Security Prison to here.

    Charters would replace the existing Constitution requirement for Divine Right. The new Constitution tech would be required for Corporation, and would replace the Nationalism and Social Contract prerequisites for Representative Democracy. Representative Democracy would require Constitution + Printing Press (going back to its original BTS prerequisites).

    Charters would not have anything buildable for now, but I would like to put Scarborough Fair and Troyes Trade Fair here eventually.

    Does this sound good to anyone?
     
  2. Azurian

    Azurian The Azurian

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    Here was a new Tech and Wonder I had an idea of...
    Tech: Numerals
    World Wonder: Abacus of the Sumerians

    Spoiler :
    I am copying pasting this from the SVN discussion thread
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=11407593&posted=1#post11407593

    I would recommend x17 and Y9 or Y11.

    The Tech can also be called Numerals, since it can be an umbrella for all the early math counting systems.

    The Abacus of the Sumerians Wonder can become obsolete with Mathematics (x29), Banking (x40), or even Mercantilism (x45).


    I agree it makes sense to include Numerals as a tech because Numerals slowly replaced Petroglyphs.

    The Technical revolution started wuth the Sumerian Abacus.
    http://everythingaroundit.wordpress...merian-abacus-to-the-world-changing-computer/




    Sevopedia
    Tech: Numerals

    Tech: Barter-------> Numerals

    "The mathematical sciences particularly exhibit order, symmetry, and limitation; and these are the greatest forms of the beautiful." - Aristotle

    Epoch: End of Prehistoric (x17, Y9 or Y11).
    Unlocks World Wonder: Abacus of the Sumerians (+25 % Gold in Capital City)
    Obsolete :maybe Mathematics (x29), Banking (x40), or even Mercantilism (x45)
    Production Cost: Similar to A world Wonder ???
    Spoiler :

    A number is an abstract concept; a numeral is a way to express a
    number, usually in writing. For example, the number 5 can be thought
    of as the concept of "fiveness" which all sets of five objects have in
    common; it can be expressed using numerals such as 5, V, |||||, five,
    and so on.

    There are almost as many number systems as there are languages - the two seem to go hand in hand. One of the ways they are classified is by base.
    It's the number of unique digits (including zero, if they have it), before the higher numbers are expressed as combinations of those unique numbers. For instance, the number fourteen is ten-and-four, linguistically; four-ten, fourteen.

    It is difficult to imagine counting without numbers, but there was a time when written numbers did not exist. The earliest counting device was the human hand and its fingers. Then, as larger quantities (larger than ten human-fingers could represent) were counted, various natural items like pebbles and twigs were used to help count. Merchants who traded goods not only needed a way to count goods they bought and sold, but also to calculate the cost of those goods. Until numbers were invented, counting devices were used to make everyday calculations. The abacus is one of many counting devices invented to help count large numbers.

    Tech Art



    World Wonder:Abacus of the Sumerians
    (+25 % Gold in Capital City)
    Unlock Tech: Numerals
    Obsolete :maybe Mathematics (x29), Banking (x40), or even Mercantilism (x45)
    Production Cost: Similar to A world Wonder ???
    Using calculation devices has a long tradition in humanity. Some of them were very successful and survived for a long time The period 2700–2300 BC saw the first appearance of the Sumerian abacus, a table of successive columns which delimited the successive orders of magnitude of their sexagesimal number system.
    Spoiler :


    The Sumerians used a base sixty in their number system. And because we ultimately inherited their writing and numbering systems, we have vestiges of that damned base sixty system floating around us, all day every day. Buy a dozen donuts? Special words for eleven and twelve? Twenty-four hours in a day, sixty minutes, sixty seconds, 360 degrees in a circle... all the Sumerians' fault.

    The abacus was in use centuries before the adoption of the written modern numeral system and is still widely used by merchants, traders and clerks in Asia, Africa, and elsewhere. The user of an abacus is called an abacist.

    Their are several variants of the abacus the were visible in the ancient world.

    Roman abacus
    The normal method of calculation in ancient Rome, as in Greece, was by moving counters on a smooth table. Originally pebbles, calculi, were used. Later, and in medieval Europe, jetons were manufactured. Marked lines indicated units, fives, tens etc.

    Chinese abacus
    The earliest known written documentation of the Chinese abacus dates to the 2nd century BC. The abacus has a long history behind it. It was already mentioned in a book of the Eastern Han Dynasty, namely Supplementary Notes on the Art of Figures written by Xu Yue about the year 190 A. D. The similarity of the Roman abacus to the Chinese one suggests that one could have inspired the other, as there is some evidence of a trade relationship between the Roman Empire and China.

    Indian abacus
    First century sources, such as the Abhidharmakosa describe the knowledge and use of abacus in India. Around the 5th century, Indian clerks were already finding new ways of recording the contents of the Abacus. Hindu texts used the term shunya (zero) to indicate the empty column on the abacus.

    Egyptian abacus
    The use of the abacus in Ancient Egypt is mentioned by the Greek historian Herodotus, who writes that the Egyptians manipulated the pebbles from right to left, opposite in direction to the Greek left-to-right method. Archaeologists have found ancient disks of various sizes that are thought to have been used as counters. However, wall depictions of this instrument have not been discovered.

    Greek abacus
    The earliest archaeological evidence for the use of the Greek abacus dates to the 5th century BC. The Greek abacus was a table of wood or marble, pre-set with small counters in wood or metal for mathematical calculations. This Greek abacus saw use in Achaemenid Persia, the Etruscan civilization, Ancient Rome and, until the French Revolution, the Western Christian world.

    Persian abacus
    During the Achaemenid Persian Empire, around 600 BC the Persians first began to use the abacus. Under Parthian and Sassanian Iranian empires, scholars concentrated on exchanging knowledge and inventions by the countries around them – India, China, and the Roman Empire, when it is thought to be expanded over the other countries.

    Wonder Art



    I agree Constitution should be renamed Charters and that Constitution should be moved to Renaissance Era along with the proposed changes.
     
  3. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    Please use the standard form when proposing new techs. Such as ...

    New Techs

    Oratory
    Req Techs: Priesthood
    Location: X25 Y7
    Cost: Same as Philosophy
    Leads To: Code of Laws, Drama

    Altered Techs

    Code of Laws
    Req Techs: Writing AND Monarchy AND Oratory

    Drama
    Req Techs: Literature AND Aesthetics AND Combat Sports AND Folk Dance AND Oratory

    ----

    Note this was already added. Its just an example.
     
  4. Azurian

    Azurian The Azurian

    Joined:
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    2,092
    Location:
    Florida, USA
    We currently have 486 Techs
    If we think of at least 14 more we can advertise 500+ Techs for Caveman3Cosmos


    Charters
    Req Techs: Paper, Philosophy, Democracy
    Location:Same as Constitution
    Cost: Same as Constitution
    Leads To: Cartography, Banking

    Unlocks:
    Heroes: Robin hood (Already in Caveman to Cosmos)
    Estates
    Jail

    Constitution
    What Vokarya Proposed

    Altered Techs
    Navigation
    Requires: Cartography AND Astroblade and Astronomy
     
  5. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    @MrAzure

    I assume you mean ...

    Req Techs: Paper AND Philosophy AND Democracy

    Because you could have OR too.
     
  6. Koshling

    Koshling Vorlon

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    8,878
    New Techs

    3D printing
    Req Techs: 3D modelling, Plastics
    Location:
    Cost: Same as Superstring theory
    Leads To: Rapid prototyping
    Buildings: 3D printer feedstock factory (produces 3D printing feedstock), commercial 3D printer (+5% hammers, requires 3D printing feedstock)
    Other effects: Cottage line +1 hammer

    Ok, next one is a joke that maybe 1 person in 10000 will get ;)

    Thiotimoline Resublimation
    Re Techs:
    Location:
    Cost:
    Leads to: Time Travel
     
  7. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    5,164


    That's an old number. I count 499 right now, and that's without the Charters/Constitution split, and without the "weird quartet" of Cold Fusion, Global Governance, Religion, and Special Promotion. I don't get why those first two are there, and the second two are for some very specific components.
     
  8. Azurian

    Azurian The Azurian

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    New Techs - Civics

    Knowledge Download
    Prerequisites: Mind Uploading
    Cost: 5% More than Mind uploading
    Civics: Education
    Civic name: Knowledge Download
    Civic Cost: Astronomical
    Your nation allows all known Knowelege to be downloaded directly to the mind using the power of the Terra Computer.

    +20% Science in all Cities
    New Units Recieve +3 Experience Points
    +10% Matienence Cost of all Cities
    +25% Matienence Cost of Overseas Cities



    Quantum Government
    Prerequisites: Quantum Computing
    5% More Than Quantum Computing
    Civics: Power
    Civics name: Quantum
    Civics Cost: Astronomical
    The Government is ruled by expensive Quantum Computers in the Capital City who decide what is best for the empire, since the complexity of the fast arrival of multiple technological advances have made it harder to enforce the law by just using the human mind. Under a Quantum Government technological advancement and a cyborg society is highly prized while the arts are seen as "a barbaric relics of the past".


    +75% Great Scientist Emergergence
    +50% Science From 3 Largest Cities, +10 % from All Cities

    -30% Culture in all Cities
    -20% Gold in all Cities
    +5% Matienence Cost of all Cities
    +10% Matienence Cost of Overseas Cities


    +5 Happy Face in Capital City
    +1 Happy Face with Android Factory
    +1 Happy Face with Nano Factory
    +1 Happy Face with Advanced Shielding

    75% Faster Construction of Nano Factory
    75% Faster Construction of Android Factory
    75% Faster Construction of Nano Factory
    75% Faster Construction of Security Center


    Binary Tought
    Prerequistite: Terra Computer AND Mind Uploading
    cost: 5% More than Terra Computer
    Civics Cost: Astronomical
    Civics: Language
    Civics Name: Binary Tought
    Your nation communicaticates via instant tought to both both human and robotic individuals using one planetary language.
    +1 Happy
    +125% Science AND +125% Culture
     
  9. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    @MrAzure

    If you want to suggest Civics then you should post in the Civics topic, not the new tech topic.
     
  10. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2011
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    Okay, here is a tech I would like to see added from Realism Invictus:

    Imperialism (Industrial Era)
    Req Techs: Grand War AND Nationalism
    Location: X54 Y13
    Cost: 4500
    Leads to: Labor Union

    Altered Techs

    Labor Union

    Req Techs: Assembly Line AND Marxism AND Imperialism
     
  11. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Another thing I never understood about the tech tree was why the Burj al-Arab (a Modern building) requires Conglomerates (which is a Transhuman era technology).

    So, I propose splitting up Conglomerates like this:

    Conglomerates (new, Modern Era)
    Req Techs: Communication Networks
    Location: X78 Y15
    Cost: 8100
    Leads to: Megacorporations
    Allows: Burj al-Arab

    Altered Techs

    Conglomerates (existing tech)
    Rename to Megacorporations
    Req Techs: Mesh Networks AND Conglomerates (new)
    Allows: Global Stock Exchange
     
  12. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    One more thing I noticed: With the new addition of the mathematics technologies, the Sculpture prerequisite for Aesthetics is redundant (Sculpture - Sundial - Geometry, another Aesthetics prerequisite).

    Like this:

    Altered Techs

    Aesthetics
    Required Techs: Alphabet AND Geometry AND Sericulture
     
  13. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    It gets really confusing with tags if you just re-name a tech. Can you explain it if the tech was moved and a new tagged tech was put in its place?

    That's what we ended up doing with Charters and Constitution.
     
  14. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    OK. How does this look?

    New Techs

    Conglomerates (Modern Era)
    Req Techs: Communication Networks
    Location: X78 Y15
    Cost: 8100
    Leads to: Megacorporations
    Allows: Burj al-Arab

    Megacorporations (Transhuman Era)
    Req Techs: Conglomerates AND Mesh Networks
    Location: X87 Y9
    Cost: 12000
    Leads to: Planetary Economics
    Allows: Global Stock Exchange

    Altered Techs

    Planetary Economics: Requires Androids AND Environmental Economics AND Fusion AND Megacorporations AND Nanobotics
     
  15. Azurian

    Azurian The Azurian

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    Existing Techs
    I think there needs to be more movement speed increases with techs in units in order to reflect the advancing of technology more realistically, and since they are rare in the second part of the game.

    For Land Units I chose to start increasing +1 Extra Moves For Land Units with Modern Health Care to keep land units with their basic movement stats as long as possible, and keep a huge tech distance between increases.

    For Sea Units I chose Naval Tactics and Sonar since their are plenty of techs that already provide +1 Extra moves to Water Units.

    For air Units I chose 7 Techs that Are spread out that increase +1 Extra operation Range for Aircraft because there is almost no techs that do that type of incremental. It is balanced because the 7 Techs are spread out in huge distances.



    I recommend the following changes be added to this existing techs. It will speed up battles in the lategame with minimal game unbalance.


    Land Units

    Modern Health Care (x71)
    +1 Extra Moves For Land Units

    Artificial Life (x90)
    +1 Extra moves For Land Units


    Sea Units

    Naval Tactics (x49)
    +1Extra moves to Water Units

    Sonar (x67)
    +1 Extra Moves To Water Units

    Air Units

    Supersonic Flight (x73)
    +1 Extra operation Range for Aircraft

    Hypersonic flight (x83)
    +1 Extra operation Range for Aircraft

    Orbital Flight (x87)
    +1 Extra operation Range for Aircraft

    Planetary Trade (x96)
    +1 Extra operation Range for Aircraft

    Interstellar Trade (x100)
    +1 Extra operation Range for Aircraft
     
  16. Azurian

    Azurian The Azurian

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    Altered Techs

    They currently do not improve anything, I propose they give +1 Gold To All Cities to stimulate the early game economy, but as the game continues the +1 gold is going to be really insignificant after a while.

    Counting
    +1 Gold To All Cities

    Arithmetic
    +1 Gold To All Cities
     
  17. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    Counting tech enables Counting Sticks and Tally Stones.
     
  18. Azurian

    Azurian The Azurian

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    I was not aware of that. Thanks.


    I have some suggestions for new Techs located at the start of The Prehistoric Era.

    According to to Wikipedia
    Spoiler :

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outline_of_prehistoric_technology


    Since we already have Language, we can introduce Abstract Reasoning, Introspection, and Problem Solving Techs in The Prehistoric Era.


    New Techs

    Problem Solving
    x1,Y1
    +1 Food in All Cities
    Cost: Same As Language
    Prerequisite for Tool Making

    Reasoning
    x1 , Y19
    Cost: Same As Language
    +1 science In ALL Cities
    Leads to Introspection

    Introspection
    x2, Y19
    Cost: Same As Gathering
    +1 Culture In All Cities
    Leads to Cooperation

    Reasoning------->Introspection------>Cooperation

    Altered Techs
    Cooperation
    Requires Introspection AND Gathering

    Tool Making
    Requires Problem Solving AND Scavenging
     
  19. Azurian

    Azurian The Azurian

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    Newspaper
    (Invented in 17th century Europe)
    X48,Y13
    Cost: Same As corporations
    Prerequstices: Printing Press And Free Artistry And Photography

    Printers Shop +1 Gold
    Newspaper Station +1 Culture +1 Science
    Provides +1 Newspaper
    Obsolete With Computer Networks



    Altered Techs
    Economics = Newspaper + Algebra + Merchantlism
    Corporations = Newspaper + constitution + Economics
    Nationalism = Newspaper + Leadership + (flintlock OR social contract OR economics)
     
  20. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Chieftain

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    I am almost finished designing a Nomad Paleolithic start mod based on merging C2C and RoH. I have almost all of the Lower Paleolithic tech tree and promotions done. I need to start on the plot production/terrain now and see how it goes with AIAndy's nomad start. I am using a variation on the tech tree proposed by Jonny Smith here. It is sill a proto type so can't be played yet.

    The "duckies" are promotions the nomad unit can build. It is not very informative with out the pedia and strategy texts. I'll see if I can get at least a partially working prototype up soonish. I am having trouble with the Middle Paleolithic techs atm.
     

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