teraforming

[kristopherb]

who thinks teraforming is a good idea

 

[cairo140]

I voted a solid no. Civilization is littered with several unnecessary elements. Terraforming would just add to the arsenal. Really, with the exception of specific raids on specific cities, the shape of the land really did very little to drive human history. All the ways it has in history is adequately represented by mountains and hills. If you can tell me one case in history when the shape of the land affected the outcome of an action, in which hills or mountains cannot do an adequate job of representing it, then I'll change my mind.

Perhaps in the original thread, you should go into much deeper detail about your vision instead of throwing out a general question.

 

[Columbkille]

I don't see the point.

 

[drkodos]

Really, with the exception of specific raids on specific cities, the shape of the land really did very little to drive human history.

That is a silly statement.


Perhaps no other single element has had as much impact on 100,000 years of human history as topography and terrain.

Goodness.

 

[cairo140]

That is a silly statement.

Alright, then, try me. I'd like to know a single time in history where topography affected something that cannot be represented just a well in the game with hills and mountains.

 

[Ammar]

The fertility of the ground is vital. Look at the Nile Valley, Fertile Crescent,...
And fertility is affected in a major way by topography.

But I don't want to see it. Even we cannot do it yet in a major way, so it fits more into AC than into Civ.

 

[Brancaleone]

We have grasslands, plains, deserts, tundra, snow, ice, hills, mountains, coasts, sea, ocean, i think its pretty good as it is. As far as terraforming goes, we should be able to replant forests, irrigate deserts, and move thrhough mountains (and even 1 tile seas, with those underwater/underground long tunnels who are popping up everywhere. I think its silly to be completelly unconnected to somewhere else because of a mountain. But terraforming like in call to power (iirc), like, "create mountain" and stuff like that, no. I dont get this talk about tophografy, but i can think of several battles which the winner was decided by terrain or climate.

No terraforming, please, but we do need more worker options for the late game! Tundra cant be that useless!

 

[drkodos]

Alright, then, try me. I'd like to know a single time in history where topography affected something that cannot be represented just a well in the game with hills and mountains.

~ The land bridge from Asia to the Americas which allowed Clovis man to populate the continents now knows as N & S America.

~ The Ocean that separated civilzations for thousands of years and still provides alevel of modern day defense for the Americas.

~ The Gobi desert. The Sahara.


Listen, I did not say I wanted terraforming in the game. All I said was your statement was silly because it is patently untrue. Topography is everything. It dictates where cities will be and where they cannot be.

~ Beach landing on Normandy.
~ Elba.


Please.


~ The vastness of Siberia as a defense against invasion from Russia's north and Eastern edges.


There are MILLIONS of examples of how topography has shaped civilization.

 

[Panda]

No, simply because it would invite a whole lot more of worker micro-management. I allready had enough of terraforming in Civ 2 and SMAC.

 

[King Flevance]

I do like the idea of terraforming but I dont like the idea you can terraform everytile. I think the Civ2 version would be ok if it were heavily nerfed. Like Ice can only become tundra. Once terraformed, thats it - no more. Only plains by rivers can be terraformed into grasslands, or maybe vice versa. And so on.

Honestly, when the I heard the game was going to use a 3D engine, I was really hoping for cliffs/canyons to come in. This would be awesome to see come in. Have 2 layers of ground. High and low. Then elevated areas that could either be narrower passages or wide open ones. It is fun to dream. Maybe down the line this will come in.

 

[alpha wolf 64]

the terraforming options I want are the ability to plant forests and jungles, and to level mountains and hills. I heard the Japanese leveled 7 whole mountains to build their offshore airport. But I dont want to see the basic type (plains/desert/grass) changeable. Turning a shore into grass would be nice too.

 

[TheBoatman]

I voted yes, at least forest/jungle planting (however the hammers for cutting should be halved), hills (not mountains) leveling should be allowed, but it should be crazy difficult e.g. 50turns + 50g, plains/grassland terraforming is defacto farming, add some late game way to irrigate deserts; or just allow everything with probability of 'malforming' terrain (like in Kara-bogaz-gol) which would change according to difficulty of the task

EDIT PS, i never understood why Civ3 & Civ4 didn't use the SMAC system of terrain (pseudo 3D, different altitudes) and climate (west wind, plateau effects, vulcanos etc)

 

[DarkSchneider]

I do like the idea of terraforming but I dont like the idea you can terraform everytile. I think the Civ2 version would be ok if it were heavily nerfed. Like Ice can only become tundra. Once terraformed, thats it - no more. Only plains by rivers can be terraformed into grasslands, or maybe vice versa. And so on.

Honestly, when the I heard the game was going to use a 3D engine, I was really hoping for cliffs/canyons to come in. This would be awesome to see come in. Have 2 layers of ground. High and low. Then elevated areas that could either be narrower passages or wide open ones. It is fun to dream. Maybe down the line this will come in.

Yes, definately Terraforming should be in as a late game tech. Maybe an offshoot of Environmentalism, but it should take a significant amount of time and only be available for some specific transformations.

 

[dh_epic]

I think lots of people LOVE running rampant over the obstacles of the game... but without obstacles, you don't HAVE a game. A game requires challenges and conflict. Obstacles offer this. And obstacles also force you to make choices, rather than always saying "hey, I'll build my cities wherever, because I can eventually turn it into an uber city anyway.

 

[Older than Dirt]

Why include such ahistorical features such as terraforming? Did any civ ever drain swamps or reclaim the sea or grow anything in what was desert? Next thing you know someone will want to be able to build canals so ships don't gotta sail around the capes!

 

[Dagoril]

Heh Older than Dirt.

Canals are the one thing I would REALLY love to have. The way the game is without them is completely ahistorical and unrealistic.

And of course so much of Holland has been reclaimed from the sea...another useful feature, if it could be implemented in a balanced way.

 

[jimbob27]

I think there should be some types. Planting trees and forests, building dykes (and later dumping hills into the sea) to reclaim land, building canal tiles.

It'd be good if there was a "slash & burn" which would be kinda similar to tree chopping, but with food as the reward. You could slash+ burn grassland to get an instant food bonus, but the grassland would turn into a plain, or a plain would turn into a desert. Basically allow you to downgrade tiles with terraforming, but not allow you to upgrade the crappy ones.

 

[binhthuy71]

For me, terraforming would take some of the challenge out of the game - particularly if it was an early option. Proper implementation on the AI side is something else; there are other improvements that I'd like to see before charging Firaxis with enabling the AI to manage something this complex.

 

[Ball Lightning]

Terraforming should be included, but with future tech, and it should take time, say 25 turns (with a special terraforming unit) to turn desert to plains, 20 turns from plains to grasslands, mabye change tundra to something.
They also need to include Grobal Warming, which has a increased chance for ever factory, coal plant and airport built.

 

[kristopherb]

Why include such ahistorical features such as terraforming? Did any civ ever drain swamps or reclaim the sea or grow anything in what was desert? Next thing you know someone will want to be able to build canals so ships don't gotta sail around the capes!

the enhlish drained the east of england so they could farm it