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Term 1 - Ministry of War: The Rise of the Samurai

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Demo Game V: Government' started by Sarevok, Jul 31, 2004.

  1. Sarevok

    Sarevok Civ3 Scenario Creator

    Joined:
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    Welcome to the Ministry of War

    Objectives:

    - To begin the ascent of the Japanaticanese military
    - To explore the lands around our nation
    - To eliminate any barbarian scum on the lands around our nation
    - To build up an elite military
    - To set up the foundations for future leaders to lead us to total victory

    Minister of War: Sarevok

    Chief of Staff (Deputy): Falcon02


    Chief of Army: CivGeneral*
    Chief of Navy: truckingpete*

    Ministry Officials: superpelon**

    * These positions are for 2 people who excell in planning in a certain branch of the Army (in this case just Army and Navy, though I doubt Navy will have anything meaningful to do this term...). This is kind of a "planning" position where before each TC these people are expected to have a general plan of their own on what should be done. Eventually when we meet other civs, they will be expected to write warplans. They will report in this thread to the Chief of Staff, who is the leader of the general planning sector of this department.

    ** This position is what I call an "apprentice position". If you wish to learn more about the workings of this department, sign up in this thread to apply. There is no limit to how many there can be. You will be told the general things that this office needs to do, and you will be expected to engage in all of this office's discussions in the Citizens forum.

    Discussions:
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=95590

    Current Military Strength:


    Non-Military Strength:
    1 Settler
    1 Worker

    If you have any questions or comments, please post them here. Otherwise defer your questions and comments to the discussion threads that are bound to pop up. Thank you :)

    - Sarevok
    Minister of War
     
  2. superpelon

    superpelon DemoGame Pelon

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    I wish to join. Still a newbie at the demogames, so ill sign on as an official. Lets see if i can tone down the warmongering from inside the Military Ministry.

    *NOTE*
    Does Military Ministry sound real lame to anyone else?? Defense, Armed Forces, anything but Military...
     
  3. Sarevok

    Sarevok Civ3 Scenario Creator

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    Alright youre in

    P.S. I didnt name the office... I agree that it is lame.

    EDIT: Name changed to Ministry of War :D
     
  4. CivGeneral

    CivGeneral Valkyrie Grand General

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    I wish to apply for Chief of the Army :).
     
  5. truckingpete

    truckingpete On a Stark Trek

    Joined:
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    North Dakota, USA
    Congrats Sarevok...

    Here you know those posititions you have, I would like to apply for Chief of the Navy even if we don't do anything navy this term. But dont put me to that positions yet. Once the science office thread is up, I like to see if he has any jobs like you have but for science. If not I'll like to be the Chief of the Navy.

    Thanks!

    - TP

    EDIT: If you decide to put me as the Chief of the Navy, you can put me as the Cheif of Navy until the science thread is up and you know the rest...from my main post...
     
  6. Sarevok

    Sarevok Civ3 Scenario Creator

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    Both appointments made. Remember that this is not a deputy position, bbut merely an extension to the Ministry of War. I made the position up as a way to get more citizens involved here for experience in handling military affairs. By that standard, anyone can take these positions as they have no actual power and are more for getting experience in this department than anything else. Just to clear some stuff up :)
     
  7. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2003
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    13,108
    Location:
    Arizona, USA (it's a dry heat)
    Hmm, there seems to be at least one missing punctuation. :rolleyes: I think you're trying to say that if someone is doing nothing you reserve the right to sack them, without needing to consult with anyone on that decision? If you want to fix it to mean what I wrote, put a comma after "nothing".

    So post here, or elsewhere, whichever we prefer? Or only post here if there is no discussion thread on the topic we're posting about? :mischief:
     
  8. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    Location:
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    Proposal for citizen discussion: Do you prefer to recruit veteran units via use of a barracks, or recruit regular units and have them promote to veteran via combat? If the answer is use a barracks to recruit veteran units, then you'll need to suggest a barracks in the queue in Governor Zoi's thread. :D
     
  9. Sarevok

    Sarevok Civ3 Scenario Creator

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    youre nitpicking... :mad:

    Jk. Ill answer your questions.

    1. Ill just get rid of that line altogether

    2. Basically if you have a question that is not a generally discussed issue in the citizen forum, then discuss it here.

    Ill hold a discussion on this. Thank you for bringing this up.
     
  10. Falcon02

    Falcon02 General

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    Deputy Falcon02, reporting for duty.
     
  11. Sarevok

    Sarevok Civ3 Scenario Creator

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    Welcome, I call you the Chief of Staff. Do you have insight on the current situation? I was not able to make it to the TC. (Sleeping) Also, I would like to hear any schemes you would have that would better our nation. Remember the goal is not who did it, its that it is done.
     
  12. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

    Joined:
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    10,101
    Location:
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    Honorable colleagues

    It seems that a settlement southeast matches the long term interests for the militaristic nation of Japan. This will give our newgound nation access to two foodplains, river, forests, and a whole range of hills to expand the city into long term, as the first city should be a production center. Iron is also vital to our plan. Those hills do have a fair chance for iron and coal. There is no horses around so far.

    I am going to give the following input on what can be done based on prior doctrinary discussions we had in the campaign threads.

    A march from the City, if built 1 tile SE, would enable us to directly proceed into the hills SW of the City, with a vision of 2 tiles not 1, giving us a quickly needed instant mapping. I would explore the following, given we build 1 tile SE:

    1. Go SW on the rim of all hills, going west then south, and then along the foothills to the first coastline, then proceed along the coast. in any direction.

    2. We are quite equatorial, so the second explorer should investigate the Northern Hills, and then continue along closest coast, counterclockwise of the initial scout sent south, in order to maximize exploration.

    3. Establish the size of the continent, any other civs and resource areas.

    This means we need to develop the following techs

    Bronze, Iron and Pottery.

    We will churn out the first critical settlers until pottery is invented, then start a more expansive settler specialization of the Capital, and let the other cities built in the meantime build workers, military units and wonders. Iron is very crucial to dertermine early, as Japans strength depends largely on Iron access. The less wars we need to fight to get iron, the better economically we are off, granary or no granary.

    Culturally, temples for area expansion and stability of cities, as we already got ceremonial burial.

    Foreign Affairs, we only trade the technology iron working away when we are certain we are not to lose the potential of a new iron ore next to a future city of Japanatica.
    Getting early iron, and control the iron early with cities, makes it harmless to trade away iron working for other techs. In fact, the AI Civs will suffer by consequence.

    Remember that with the two foodplains, granary and pottery is not that urgent.
    Iron is priority.

    I hope we can discuss this :)

    Provolution
     
  13. Sarevok

    Sarevok Civ3 Scenario Creator

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    I like it. You should post all this in a new discussion thread. Not everyone will come here to see it and this plan is not a purely military plan.
     
  14. Comnenus

    Comnenus AKA Kenshin

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    Hello, all you Shinsengumi, or whatever you are calling yourselves these days. I point out that Japanatica is not a militaristic nation by nature, but only that you represent the militaristic aims of some portion of the population. Please don't assume that the nation will fall in line with militaristic goals. You know what happens when you assume. ;)

    Going SE is not the only option open to us, as east also makes a lot of sense. I looks like we are going to have a lively discussion on this first move.
     
  15. Sarevok

    Sarevok Civ3 Scenario Creator

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  16. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    I have the following statistics for the pre iron and iron militaries of Japanatica

    Regular Case

    Early Exploration Barbarian Camp, Barbarian Warrior/Horse Enemy Civ Spearman
    Warrior 54.9 % 64.2 %/ 18.1%/12.6 % (F)
    Spearman

    Archers 82.3 % 87.6 % 45.6 %/56.3 %
    Horsemen

    Swordsmen 91.5 % 94.5 % 64.2%7%4.) %
    Samurai 95.4 % 97.2 % 75.8 %/67.7%

    Now, this was all with regular units on flat, open land. However. if we keep some huts alive for military training, and then kill these huts off as soon as we have enough elites and veterans, we may now consider our attack chances with Swordsmen and Samurais.

    Elite Case

    Early Exploration Barbarian Camp, Barbarian Warrior/Horse Enemy Civ Spearman
    Warrior 81.4 % 87.9% 38.2%/28.7 % (F)
    Spearman

    Archers 96.7 % 98.2 % 73.3 %/63.5 %
    Horsemen

    Swordsmen 99 % 99.6 % 87.9% 81.4 %
    Samurai 99.7 % 99.9 % 94.2 %/90%

    Lesson learnt

    Iron alone gives us a military efficiency gain on attacking early units by 35-40 % increase of total succes ratio from warrior to swordsman on barbarians. The interesting find here is that frontier experience by a warrior has almost the same impact as a unit upgrade from warrior to archer. Yet economically, we may lose these units in one out of five cases, or even more in more defensive terrains. Comparing the aggregated effect of iron and experience to elite level, swordsmen are virtually invincible to barbarians, which means that further frontier wars are of no use following elite level.

    Economically, the gain of leaving a goody hut intact and non colonized may over time be tremendous, but that requires that we have Iron so we can control the risk to 1 %.
    with ravaging barbarians attacking a fortified mountain, over time, we may effectively increase the combat capabilities of the future samurai (pitting horsemen in defense fortifications next to frontier for later samurai upgrade)
    by doubling the attack chances from horseman through elite horseman to elite samurai, or stick with the back up plan, a mixed army of elite swordsmen and regular/veteran samurai. When we know that we double or increase the attack ratio by a third with this training, we know that 10 units may have the real value of 15-20 units, which means a lot of saved production.

    So if we really do not need to build a city in such a controlled reservation habitat, ideally it should be swamps, tundra, desert or plains - like what North Africa was for the Foreign Legion, a cheap and non-colonizable training ground for the French military., we SHOULD NOT build a city there.
    This will be the Area 51 of Japanatica, a military development region, short term with barbarian training, and long term with military installations, airbases and so on, even a military construction city. Economically and Militarily, such a solution is in the best interest (Militaristic trait gives experience easily).
    This reservation should also be protected from foreign CIVS,at any rate,
     
  17. blackheart

    blackheart unenlightened

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    Eh coulda fooled me ;). No nation ever claims they're militaristic yet they keep a strong military force. Let us just rename ourselves as protective.

    On another note, are you going to try to get a few galleys up and running soon Sarevok or wait?
     
  18. Sarevok

    Sarevok Civ3 Scenario Creator

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    When we can Ill get some galleys up.

    Ill respond to your post later Provolution, im too tired to read large amounts of text...
     
  19. superpelon

    superpelon DemoGame Pelon

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    I think we should try and find the coast, and building a city before we try building a navy :) ;)
     
  20. Zarn

    Zarn Le Républicain Catholique

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    Exactly. We should concentrate on the capital's builds, as it is going to be our only city, initally (obviously). Let's not get ahead of ourselves. We need a city next to water in order to make a navy.
     

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