Term 4 - Ambassadorial Offices to Apolyton
- Thread starter Goonie
- Start date
Zarn
Le Républicain Catholique
I think the defacto ambassadors should still be allowed to engage in talks.
Nope, they'll continue until turn 135, unlike last time where they lasted only 72 hours. I do think that we should retain that, but Oct must have posted the polls with unlimited time rather than 3 days.
Anyway, given that you're currently up 13-2 for ambassador, it should be okay for you to set up this thread.
Anyway, given that you're currently up 13-2 for ambassador, it should be okay for you to set up this thread.
Ok I am sick of this . In the last two days I have already had all my discussions with Apolyton ruined! If this keeps up I am resigning. Look at the latest incident.
"<Octavian_X> There is no official position of the Fanatikese government on any of the border proposals.
<Octavian_X> Unfortunately, the majority of discussion on this subject was very informal, as it wasn't a pressing mater.
<MasterZen> ok, that is neither a yes nor a no, Goonie was saying it was rejected, something that surprised me
<Octavian_X> To be frank, I had been under the impression the matter was over as well.
<Octavian_X> This new proposal was an effort but some for a better deal.
"
This is after I explicitly asked Octavian NOT to talk to Apolyton! And he said he wouldn't! I spent an HOUR working for this country and in 1 minute it was ALL ruined! Now let me explain.
Apolyton is smart. They are trying to divide us! And they succeded. It is like a kid who tries to get different answers from his parents! I asked Octavian to keep quite, but apprantely he could not! For the last hour it was apparent to me we had lost the border proposal. Fine!! But you make them know we are disappointed! It gives us an advantage next time negotiations are up!!! But no! Octavian decided he knew better, now next time I go to talk to them they will once again attempt to divide and conquer us! And next time if they do, I am resigning. All my work was shot down the drain.
How would we get an advantage? Well we make them know that we are upset and unsatisfied and in the future we could have used this to get an upper hand. It is a great tool to bring up in future discussions. Now they wouldn't feel bad about turning us down, and we gain nothing. Nothing is gained.
Octavian you completely betrayed me. I am utterly disgusted and disappointed. You missed over an hour of talks and the first thing you do is to run your mouth even when you said you wouldn't.
"<Octavian_X> There is no official position of the Fanatikese government on any of the border proposals.
<Octavian_X> Unfortunately, the majority of discussion on this subject was very informal, as it wasn't a pressing mater.
<MasterZen> ok, that is neither a yes nor a no, Goonie was saying it was rejected, something that surprised me
<Octavian_X> To be frank, I had been under the impression the matter was over as well.
<Octavian_X> This new proposal was an effort but some for a better deal.
"
This is after I explicitly asked Octavian NOT to talk to Apolyton! And he said he wouldn't! I spent an HOUR working for this country and in 1 minute it was ALL ruined! Now let me explain.
Apolyton is smart. They are trying to divide us! And they succeded. It is like a kid who tries to get different answers from his parents! I asked Octavian to keep quite, but apprantely he could not! For the last hour it was apparent to me we had lost the border proposal. Fine!! But you make them know we are disappointed! It gives us an advantage next time negotiations are up!!! But no! Octavian decided he knew better, now next time I go to talk to them they will once again attempt to divide and conquer us! And next time if they do, I am resigning. All my work was shot down the drain.
How would we get an advantage? Well we make them know that we are upset and unsatisfied and in the future we could have used this to get an upper hand. It is a great tool to bring up in future discussions. Now they wouldn't feel bad about turning us down, and we gain nothing. Nothing is gained.
Octavian you completely betrayed me. I am utterly disgusted and disappointed. You missed over an hour of talks and the first thing you do is to run your mouth even when you said you wouldn't.
Zarn
Le Républicain Catholique
Goonie, I think you are handling this the wrong way. Stop and think about it for a moment. Sure, I would have supported asking Poly for more land, but saying that our people didn't accept the BOP isn't that accurate. We generally accepted it. It was never official over here, but that was it.
That is not very diplomatic to blow up at Oct for that reason.
We are in this together, whether you like it or not. That goes for both of you.
That is not very diplomatic to blow up at Oct for that reason.
We are in this together, whether you like it or not. That goes for both of you.
Donovan Zoi
The Return
Goonie, with all due respect, this technically isn't your office yet. 
But I digress.
I must admit that I am not comfortable with the sudden shift in policy that seems to be taking place here. In regards to Apolyton, we seem to be moving from a far-too-lenient stance to one that is much more hardline. I really don't believe that this is the best route for ourselves or our neighbor.
If you ask me, Poly really doesn't owe us anything. They could have let us suffer a GCA onslaught, but decided to step in to help. Was this decision partly for their benefit? Slightly. But we wouldn't have had a fighting chance had they not intervened.
Now you are planning on repaying that favor by trying to squeeze more land from them than we deserve? The fact that they are allowing us to claim all land west of the chokepoints is more than fair. We should spend our energy trying to settle that land as soon as possible, and not working to destroy what could be a beneficial alliance.
If you look at our game scores, you will see that both members of this continent barely add up to the score of each member of the other one. Poly and CFC need each other right now, in the event that one of those civs comes a callin.'
So, I guess the thing to do now would be to poll this matter once and for all. Do we really want to squeeze our prospective ally for more, or should we be content with their offering so that we can build a solid alliance against any threats from the outside world?
But I digress.I must admit that I am not comfortable with the sudden shift in policy that seems to be taking place here. In regards to Apolyton, we seem to be moving from a far-too-lenient stance to one that is much more hardline. I really don't believe that this is the best route for ourselves or our neighbor.
If you ask me, Poly really doesn't owe us anything. They could have let us suffer a GCA onslaught, but decided to step in to help. Was this decision partly for their benefit? Slightly. But we wouldn't have had a fighting chance had they not intervened.
Now you are planning on repaying that favor by trying to squeeze more land from them than we deserve? The fact that they are allowing us to claim all land west of the chokepoints is more than fair. We should spend our energy trying to settle that land as soon as possible, and not working to destroy what could be a beneficial alliance.
If you look at our game scores, you will see that both members of this continent barely add up to the score of each member of the other one. Poly and CFC need each other right now, in the event that one of those civs comes a callin.'
So, I guess the thing to do now would be to poll this matter once and for all. Do we really want to squeeze our prospective ally for more, or should we be content with their offering so that we can build a solid alliance against any threats from the outside world?
Octavian X
is not a pipe.
Courtesy of MasterZen, along with my own parts of the log, a chat that took place today with Goonie and Apolyton.
Ok ok. We did not accept the BOP proposal. Accepting is with a vote. That is a technicality. How am I going about this the wrong way? I have already said that I acknoledge that we will not get anymore land. That is a fact. The only thing I wished to gain from that chat was an upper hand in the next negotiation. Do you understand how we could acheive one?
I am a very loyal person and I am truly hurt when people who give me their word break it. I am not blowing up, I am simply reporting that we lost an upper hand in future negotiations due to his untimely comments.
I know we are in this toghther thats why I was so hurt.
Zarn
Le Républicain Catholique
Alright, this is how we are going to settle this. We set up a chat. (Don't forget to invite me. ) Then we iron everything out with Poly. Please, let me talk first, because I think I can fix the relations. Do we have a deal?
) Then we iron everything out with Poly. Please, let me talk first, because I think I can fix the relations. Do we have a deal?I am not being hardline at all. Look at the previous chat and my letter to Apolyton. On the contrary I am being very very courteous.
Yes, but if GCA had taken us over. They would have already have three quarters of the continent and only Apolyton to stand in their way. Apolyton would be gone too. Apolyton realized they couldn't let that happen. We were to valuable for them
. Now you are planning on repaying that favor by trying to squeeze more land from them than we deserve? The fact that they are allowing us to claim all land west of the chokepoints is more than fair. We should spend our energy trying to settle that land as soon as possible, and not working to destroy what could be a beneficial alliance.
I honestly believe that after thousands of years of war, we deserve a mere two small cities.
Apolyton is our only friend. I understand very well. But that does not mean we should not put foward proposals for the betterment of our nation. I believe that we did deserve those two cities. I not going to ruin our relantionship with Apolyton over it. It is important to seem disgruntled and disappointed about losing the negotiations so that next time we can say " Hey, you got what you wanted that time, give us abit of leeway this time."
If you look at our game scores, you will see that both members of this continent barely add up to the score of each member of the other one. Poly and CFC need each other right now, in the event that one of those civs comes a callin.'
I have been saying that this will be the case for thousands of years. I brought the importance of this relationship to the front of the debate many months ago.
So, I guess the thing to do now would be to poll this matter once and for all. Do we really want to squeeze our prospective ally for more, or should we be content with their offering so that we can build a solid alliance against any threats from the outside world?
Their is no need for a poll because they won't budge. They were never going to. This is to our advantage in the future.
Octavian X
is not a pipe.
For one, Goonie, I felt it impolite to not respond to a direct query. I was asked specifically, and that response is what I had felt was our current situation. We've not had any formal polls/discussion at the subject at all. If anything, previous indication had indicated that the team was IN FAVOR of a border at the Balance of Power.
And, I do believe I have every right to be angy at your actions during the chat before I arrived. As the chat log shows, you frankly had acted very rudely to MasterZen and Apolyton.
I think the following statement by Togas, Apolyton's FAM, in their ambassadorial channel, with Goonie present, no less, sums it up.
I could care less about the actions you take in your official position when your term begins on turn 136. However, I at least request that, whatever you do, you at least procede politely.
And, I do believe I have every right to be angy at your actions during the chat before I arrived. As the chat log shows, you frankly had acted very rudely to MasterZen and Apolyton.
I think the following statement by Togas, Apolyton's FAM, in their ambassadorial channel, with Goonie present, no less, sums it up.
I could care less about the actions you take in your official position when your term begins on turn 136. However, I at least request that, whatever you do, you at least procede politely.
Originally posted by Zarn
Alright, this is how we are going to settle this. We set up a chat. (Don't forget to invite me.
I am confused as per how relations are in a bad state.
You are the boss, so it is up to you, but I feel that if we look weak and look as if we are trying to excuse ourselves for sticking up for our opinions, then future negotiations will be increasingly difficult. I don't think we need a chat. I was planning on waiting a few days so that Apolyton could feel bad about turning us down, then going in and working out our alliance as per the poll.We need Apolyton, just like they need us. But the more we look like we are trying to excuse ourselves and the more we present conflicting ideas, the more they will walk all over us.
Octavian X
is not a pipe.
This isn't your job yet.
And, I do believe I have every right to be angy at your actions during the chat before I arrived. As the chat log shows, you frankly had acted very rudely to MasterZen and Apolyton.
No I was not rude.
Togas has a right to his opinion. I am disappointed he feels that way. Unfortunately he took the wrong interpretations of my words.
Octavian X
is not a pipe.
We can sit here and argue about that forever, but you have to remembe that things come across differently over IRC. Unfortunately, they did feel like the whole thing did come out rude.
Take this from a seasoned diplomat. Though it's good to be frank about your opinions, the above isn't the way to go about it. You could've expressed that in a better, less confrontational, and frankly insulting, way.
Unless your down the warpath, don't directly call the nation your negotiotiating anything that direct and hurtful, either. A better way to go about it would've been...
>So, Apolyton didn't like the deal because they were under the impression we had another?
That's it. Keep your personal opinions to yourself, and don't appear so direct or exetremely demanding. There are situations where we want to take a strong position, but with Apolyton, it is essential that we take a nicer, more neutral and less-demanding tone if we are to keep a strong relationship.
Zarn
Le Républicain Catholique
Originally posted by Goonie
I am confused as per how relations are in a bad state.
We need Apolyton, just like they need us. But the more we look like we are trying to excuse ourselves and the more we present conflicting ideas, the more they will walk all over us.
A few day waiting period is fine with me. (either of you two) Just tell them ahead of time that another chat is coming soon and the FA will be there to settle things with you, so that normal relations may continue. They need us as much as we need them. It's something that is fairly obvious. In that chat, we will settle the territory issue with the conflicting views on our team, and then we have further talks on our relationship with one another (You may tell them that statement as well).
Are you doubting my diplomacy skills, Goonie?
It's okay to tell me the truth. I can take it like a man.
Donovan Zoi
The Return
Ambassador-elect Goonie,
Since your term does not officially start until the beginning of Turn 136, I am presenting you with a cease-and-desist order regarding contact with Apolyton. During the next three turns, you may not:
a. Identify yourself as the standing CFC ambassador to Apolyton
b. Take part in the post-GCA negotiation process in any way, except to be introduced as the incoming ambassador.
Once you take office at the commencement of Turn 136, you are free to take on the full role of Ambassador to Apolyton. However, you must take heed of the following:
a. You may never attempt to alter the course of existing negotiations without a ratified poll of approval from our populace.
b. You may not ignore Article L of our Constitution by attempting to disclude higher-ranking officials from the negotiation process.
For reference:
Article L. The President, Vice President, and Foreign Affairs Leader are de-facto ambassadors to all nations. Regular Ambassadors are elected each term. Ambassadors shall only be chosen when Fanatikou has made in-game contact with a rival civilization.
In addition, you must make sure to log any chat that takes place with Apolyton and post it in this thread.
Failure to do so will leave me no choice but to issue a request for removal, which is my right under Article N.1 of our Constitution.
For reference:
Article N.1: If any citizen is discontent with the way an office is carrying out it's duties, he may request that the official executing the duties of that office be removed. If two more citizens second the request for removal, the request becomes a demand, and the Minister/President/Vice President/Chief Justice must post a poll lasting two days on the furutre of the office in question. If a simple majority votes in favor of removal, the official executing the duties of that office is removed.
I hope that this matter can be resolved without further threat of action from myself or anyone else, but I promise to defend my rights as a citizen under our Constitution if I must.
Sincerely,
Donovan Zoi
Vice-President of Fanatikou
Since your term does not officially start until the beginning of Turn 136, I am presenting you with a cease-and-desist order regarding contact with Apolyton. During the next three turns, you may not:
a. Identify yourself as the standing CFC ambassador to Apolyton
b. Take part in the post-GCA negotiation process in any way, except to be introduced as the incoming ambassador.
Once you take office at the commencement of Turn 136, you are free to take on the full role of Ambassador to Apolyton. However, you must take heed of the following:
a. You may never attempt to alter the course of existing negotiations without a ratified poll of approval from our populace.
b. You may not ignore Article L of our Constitution by attempting to disclude higher-ranking officials from the negotiation process.
For reference:
Article L. The President, Vice President, and Foreign Affairs Leader are de-facto ambassadors to all nations. Regular Ambassadors are elected each term. Ambassadors shall only be chosen when Fanatikou has made in-game contact with a rival civilization.
In addition, you must make sure to log any chat that takes place with Apolyton and post it in this thread.
Failure to do so will leave me no choice but to issue a request for removal, which is my right under Article N.1 of our Constitution.
For reference:
Article N.1: If any citizen is discontent with the way an office is carrying out it's duties, he may request that the official executing the duties of that office be removed. If two more citizens second the request for removal, the request becomes a demand, and the Minister/President/Vice President/Chief Justice must post a poll lasting two days on the furutre of the office in question. If a simple majority votes in favor of removal, the official executing the duties of that office is removed.
I hope that this matter can be resolved without further threat of action from myself or anyone else, but I promise to defend my rights as a citizen under our Constitution if I must.
Sincerely,
Donovan Zoi
Vice-President of Fanatikou
Octavian X
is not a pipe.
*sigh*
I agree with what Donavon Zoi has stated. However, Article N.1 doesn't deal with elected officials.
Say the Domestic Minister appoints a Governor. This governorship is termed 'an office,' not to be confused with an elected official. If people are unhappy with the governor, they can request removal of that governor.
As of now, it's impossible to remove an elected official, though I am in the process of creating a proposal for such a process.
I agree with what Donavon Zoi has stated. However, Article N.1 doesn't deal with elected officials.
Say the Domestic Minister appoints a Governor. This governorship is termed 'an office,' not to be confused with an elected official. If people are unhappy with the governor, they can request removal of that governor.
As of now, it's impossible to remove an elected official, though I am in the process of creating a proposal for such a process.
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