Term 6 : Judiciary

[Methos]

The proble is, his post will get lost fairly quickly. It's a very valuable pot too.

Edit: Moved it for now, can always be brought back.

 

[donsig]

Good idea to give it a new home. Thanks. I agree with Hyronymus that more must be included. Like any good library the collection must be developed and organized. (Can you all tell I work in a library?) There are many polls that are initiatives but were about game play actionable topics. It would be nice to have these all in one place, too. Maybe we can eventually get all polls added to that thread with different posts for different types of polls. Sounds like a big job. Maybe we need a bit of a group effort, especially if we are to include summaries. I'll see what I can come up with.

As for rulings, yes they should also be part of a law library. We used to keep a judicial log of all judicial decisions. Has that been discountinued?

 

[DaveShack]

We have a log, in the offices subforum. There haven't been many rulings and I don't think last term kept it up to date.

 

[donsig]

Ok, then we can just link to the log for now. When we get around to summarizing and organizing the library we can import from the log.

 

[dutchfire]

The Power of the People can be delegated to officials of the game in one or more of the following ways, or in other ways which may subsequently be discovered.
By Initiative in the form of a completed forum poll initiated by any citizen.
By Mandate in the form of game play instructions posted in the forum by a duly elected official with legal authority in the area covered by said instructions.
By Constituency in the form of citizen comments in favor of a decision, in a forum discussion.
By Designated Player Action in the form of actions made (and logged) during game play.

Playing now. I've got instructions for dutchfire and Provolution who have posted as citizens. Since they do not back their instructions up with a poll (the only instance in which citizens can post instructions) I must consider these instructions to be non-binding.

 

[dutchfire]

The Power of the People can be delegated to officials of the game in one or more of the following ways, or in other ways which may subsequently be discovered.
By Initiative in the form of a completed forum poll initiated by any citizen.
By Mandate in the form of game play instructions posted in the forum by a duly elected official with legal authority in the area covered by said instructions.
By Constituency in the form of citizen comments in favor of a decision, in a forum discussion.
By Designated Player Action in the form of actions made (and logged) during game play.

Playing now. I've got instructions for dutchfire and Provolution who have posted as citizens. Since they do not back their instructions up with a poll (the only instance in which citizens can post instructions) I must consider these instructions to be non-binding.

I'd like to have the Judiciaries view on donsigs post. Should I request a Judicial Review or something else?

 

[DaveShack]

It would be easier in the short term to just have the Chieftain post instructions on the topic in question.

There is additional law on the subject:

Citizen's Initiative - The Playing the Save Act of 4000 BC

Section 1 - Instructions

All official instructions must be posted in the current game session instruction thread. Instructions must be clear and defined. All sessions, including special sessions, must have an instruction thread.

Officials must post their instructions at least one hour before the scheduled start of the game session. Officials may make changes to their instructions up to an hour before the session, so long as those changes are clearly noted. Officials that do not post instructions for a game session are considered to have given the DP complete control over their area for that game session, even should they be at the game session.

Citizens may post instructions based on the results of completed initiatives. These instructions must be posted at least one hour before the scheduled start of the game session.

If an instruction thread has not been created for a scheduled game session when a citizen is ready to post instructions, that citizen may create a instruction thread for that session.

Section 2 - Playing

The DP for each game session, including special sessions, must maintain a log of their actions in sufficient detail that another citizen may generally recreate their actions.

During a game session, citizens are encouraged to comment and offer advice to the DP. The DP may also seek comments from citizens. The DP is not required to do so, and is not required in any way to follow any such advice.

The game session may last for as long as there are relevant instructions, until a posted instruction says to halt the session or when the DP decides to end the session. Once a game session is over, the DP must post a summary of that session, a detailed log of their actions, and a save in the instruction thread and in the summary thread.

Bold emphasis added to the relevant clause: Citizens are expressly given the power to post instructions relating to initiatives. Officials are given the power to post instructions over their areas. Nothing is said about mandate.

I'll hold off and let the other Justices comment on the question before going further.

 

[Hyronymus]

The bold section of the "old" playing the save act of 4000 BC is also present in the new Gameplay Scheduling and Session Act of 1695 AD. This because the Constitution clearly states the ability (and supersedence) of completed citizen's initiatives.

 

[dutchfire]

The bold section of the "old" playing the save act of 4000 BC is also present in the new Gameplay Scheduling and Session Act of 1695 AD. This because the Constitution clearly states the ability (and supersedence) of completed citizen's initiatives.

Yes, but Constituency also clearly supersedes Designated Player Action.

 

[grant2004]

Yes, but Constituency also clearly supersedes Designated Player Action.

I agree with Dutchfire here, DPs are required to follow clear constituencies in the constitution, and it is certainly within a citizens right to draw a DP's attention to a constituency which they might otherwise miss.

 

[ravensfire]

The DP is not considered an official, and thus isn't covered by the constitution's clause. They are explicitly restricted by the Playing the Save Act to act only according to the instructions given to them in the instruction thread.

Citizens should be posting in the official threads of our leaders, demanding that they post instructions, not filling the instruction thread with posts that don't belong there!

-- Ravensfire

 

[Hyronymus]

OK, to avoid further confusion:

Article C - Decision Making
1. All decision making power within the Democracy Game is derived from the collective rights of all the citizens.
2. The Power of the People can be delegated to officials of the game in one or more of the following ways, or in other ways which may subsequently be discovered.

1. By Initiative in the form of a completed forum poll initiated by any citizen.
2. By Mandate in the form of game play instructions posted in the forum by a duly elected official with legal authority in the area covered by said instructions.
3. By Constituency in the form of citizen comments in favor of a decision, in a forum discussion.
4. By Designated Player Action in the form of actions made (and logged) during game play.​

3. In the event that two or more such delegations of the Power of the People are in conflict, the following hierarchy shall determine which decision has precedence.

1. An initiative has force of law and supercedes any other decision type, including an earlier initiative on the same subject.
2. Mandate supercedes any other decision type (including an earlier mandate on the same subject) except an initiative or another later initiative.
3. Constituency supercedes only designated player actions.
4. Designated Player Action does not supercede any other type of decision.​

4. A lower form of law may specify procedures and restrictions on implementing decision types, except

1. Initiative must always be allowed
2. No decision shall require more support than an amendment to the Constitution.​

 

[ravensfire]

Hmm, so the DP is restricted, by initiative to following only instructions posted in the instructions thread. That same initiative ALSO restricts non-official citizens to posting instructions only when there is a completed initiative.

As allowed BY THE CONSTITUTION, we've limited the ability of citizens to post in the instruction thread to minimize noise and reduce confusion. We allow officials to post for their area, and citizens to post for completed initiative. That's it.

-- Ravensfire

 

[Hyronymus]

Then the Constitution needs to be changed to allow citizens to post instructions for citizen initiatives containing GPIT instructions that were succesfully polled.

 

[Provolution]

Yeah, Hyro is right there, the law needs to be bridged.

 

[ravensfire]

Then the Constitution needs to be changed to allow citizens to post instructions for citizen initiatives containing GPIT instructions that were succesfully polled.

Nope!

Re-read the Playing the Save act that DS posted - in particular, look at the section about when citizens can post. Hint - it's bolded.

It's already in there, folks. Pass an initiative and any citizen can post the instruction(s) to impliment the initiative.

-- Ravensfire

 

[Hyronymus]

Then what did you mention earlier, Ravensfire. You sure know how to confuse :s.

 

[DaveShack]

The question was prompted by this:

Citizen Dutchfire:

By constituency(did I get that Constitution term correctly?):
If we get a Great Engineer, then move him to the city where we'll build the Statue of Liberty (Riversight?), and use him to hurry production there.

If we get a Great Prophet, then move him to Equus Aurum and settle him there.

If we get a Great Scientist, move him to Xanadu and build an academy there.

Ravensfire's point was that the law allows citizens to post an instruction based on an initiative (i.e. a poll), but things that are not polls need to be posted as instructions by an official.

If the DP knows about a constituency decision it should be followed, but technically it isn't an instruction unless it meets the definition in the Playing the Save Act.

 

[ravensfire]

Then what did you mention earlier, Ravensfire. You sure know how to confuse :s.

Nope - it's all in the context.

Instructions threads should have instructions from officials in their area, and from citizens posting instructions to impliment completed initiatives. There should NOT be anything from "concerned citizens" posting about "constituency". That's garbage and spam, plain and simple, is not helpful to the DP and confuses matters.

Instruction threads need to be clear, concise and to the point. If it in the IT, the DP does it. Constituency is there to govern officials, not the DP. Heck that's what our rules clearly state! Shoving that down the DP's throat makes their job infinitely harder, and even more prone to the over-zealous second-guessing, whining and complaining that already goes on.

The process is simple - officials determine the Will of the People and post instructions that implement said will. Citizens post instructions only to impliment citizen initiatives that weren't polled by an official (to make sure they don't get missed). That's it. Everyone knows exactly what the DP has to do, keeping the confusion and guesswork to a minimum.

-- Ravensfire

 

[Hyronymus]

Then I completely fail to see the fuzz here.