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Term 6 Nomination: Warlord

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Democracy Game II' started by dutchfire, Jul 24, 2007.

  1. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity

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    Position: Warlord

    This is the nomination thread for the office of Warlord.

    The Warlord is responsible for all units other than settlers and workers.

    To nominate a citizen for Warlord, including yourself, post the name in this thread or PM me, dutchfire. Self-nominations are considered automatically accepted unless indicated otherwise. Citizens may only accept one nomination.

    All citizens are encouraged to post questions to the nominees about their plans and qualifications for the office. Nominees are encouraged, but not required, to answer these questions.

    The nominations thread will close by 16.00 GMT on Juli 27th.
     
  2. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity

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    I nominate Provolution
     
  3. Joe Harker

    Joe Harker 1st in the Premiership!

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    I will self nominate myself for this position
     
  4. Nobody

    Nobody Gangster

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    I nominate Civgeneral.
     
  5. ordinaryguy

    ordinaryguy Back to Civ!

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    He is already running for another position.

    I second Provolution and Joe Harker.
     
  6. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    Since I got the faith here, I will rerun, thanks for the nominations Dutchfire and Ordinaryguy.
     
  7. grant2004

    grant2004 Citizen

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    A few questions to both candidates.

    What would your plans be for our two neighbors, do you expect another series of wars, and if so what would your general strategy be?

    What would you say is the most important new technology for our military?

    What do you see as the role our navy will play in the short term and in the long term?
     
  8. Joe Harker

    Joe Harker 1st in the Premiership!

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    Our two neighbours: Germany should be invaded as soon as possible, after the peace deal ends, because of war awareness i would plan a Blitz across Germany (oh the irony!). Rome depends on what we want to achieve. A small scale war to weaken them would be fairly easy now if we wanted. The conquest of Rome would require a fast moving pincer movement towards Rome, one from the south going north,
    one coming from what is now Germany going west.

    Techology. I would say Miltary tradition (because the two movement points which cavalry have, allow a quick campaign )and possible chemistry if coupled with astromery for frigates.

    Navy: A tactic I often use is to keep a naval ship in at least the main cities, so that if an invasion force is spotted at least two ships should be able to respone to it. So yes, the build up of a navy especially after astromery and chemistry are researched is a big prority.

    In the long term it should be used with a specialist ampihous assult force (ie marines) so that should war break out between us and a country on the other contient then we have a force ready to go.
     
  9. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity

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    Which victory type(s) to do you want to achieve in this game?
     
  10. Joe Harker

    Joe Harker 1st in the Premiership!

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    Thats not my decision as warlord, thats up to the people to decide and to be honest i don't mind how we win (as long as we win :))
     
  11. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    Looking at the current state of our empire which modernization strategy would you prefer?

    1. Building new modern units and disbanding excess, outdated, low experience units
    2. Upgrading units to modern technology
     
  12. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity

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    How do you think about an intercontinental invasion?
     
  13. Joe Harker

    Joe Harker 1st in the Premiership!

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    I would normally prefer option 1, because the 2 option requires a lot of gold
    There would be exceptions, such as well promoted units, but overall disband any units that are weak in comparison to the units we could produce. (Plus it would give cities like Riversight something to do).

    Intercontiental invasions are certainly possible, as soon as we get astromery. However, depending on the amount of ships we have to transport units and the distance between the two contients, the first wave would have to big enough to be able to survive until renforcements arrive. I don't see this being a real option for a while, because i think we need to concentrate on the building of infrastructure in the newly captured cities, before we increase our miltary to the levels needed for an invasion. Plus i don't think there will be much of an appetite to invading the other contient so soon after we captured our own (although i may be wrong:)).
     
  14. Hyronymus

    Hyronymus Troop leader

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    What I usually do is upgrade old units with over 8/10 promotions and disband old units with less promotions. But mostly I construct modern units as soon as they become available. I just suggest a mixture of both proposals, using an easy rule-of-thumb for disbanding/upgrading old units.

    Naturally, we can suicide old units in upcoming wars too. I'm not sure if loosing units wreaks havoc on our score though. If it doesn't I would like to give that in consideration.
     
  15. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    What would your plans be for our two neighbors, do you expect another series of wars, and if so what would your general strategy be?
    Germany got 3 cities, and I could devise a plan to destroy the entire German civilization in less than a turnchat. I see no reason for Germany to exist, as they hate us, and they got no technology to offer us. Another problem could be that the other continent would colonize them first, with Japanese and Aztecs both being aggressive trait nations. I can see this German war taking place already this turnchat, or next turnchat. But I am afraid someone would let Germany live a bit longer for election purposes.

    As I worked hard to get vassalage, I would like to send a new generation trained troops added with the old one to attack the three remaining German cities. The norm would be 7 macemen and three catapults, and that would even work for Frankfurt with 5+ longbows, as only one of them is a real defender with two city garrison promotions. Dortmund and Tartar will be much easier to take, and we will do exactly that.

    Due to war weariness issues, I would like to see us declare War with Rome as soon as Frankfurt is taken, even though we still need to take another German City. I think the first phase should allow us to take the following cities:

    Hamburg, the Tao Religious City, is a key target, to be taken in a pincer from Dortmund and Berlin. Some players would argue that pincers or "overcomplex" strategies are not needed, but I disagree. The reason why, is to take out Roman Iron more quickly and to cover more ground as AI tends to wander around. I would attack from primarily Berlin, and the spare troops to be liberated from then Mongol Dortmund. I want to keep that city due to the Isthmus placement, which may be useful in the future (producing ships in lakeside locations for example).


    The New Roman City placed between Pisae and Neapolis has to be taken as well, this would happen right after the War on Rome starts. I see this war as driven by macemen and catapults until the end. We need to use the forces we have.


    Antium is the third and final main target for the Roman War. This major city is pressuring Cumae culturally and is the city possibly delivering all the new Roman settlers. We should take Antium and thus reduce the NW border to a minimum length. Engineering would be quite useful in this plan, to allow double road movement for slow moving infantry and catapults, so I would urge the people to support that tech now.

    We should declare peace after these three (potentially also Ravenna, if I can get people along to do this) and get theology and some other gains from the Romans.

    vassalage has now given us 22 free unis, and with the average garrison of 1 per city and 18 cities, we got a surplus of 4 free units. I got clear ideas for how to max this trait out. The Aggressive Trait allows us to get to the promotions liberated by Combat, which we get for free. This allows us to give the promotion "Cover" which will be useful in the German War and "Formation" which will be useful in the Roman War. Yet, as soon as we see we got enough specialists, we should change to scaleable promotions that can be used in the industrial and modern ages, so we should at a point, possibly right after the next Roman War, only focus on promotions that can be used long term, this means that Shock, Cover and Promotion will be soon obsolete. Combat, Medic and others would be key.

    These wars should in principle be placed in the early 1600s, over 15-18 turns or so (for both wars in one go, making the German transcend into the Roman one).

    The final Roman war should be taken in the late 1600s. taking Rome and the unnamed NW city, and possibly also Ravenna if not already taken. Ravenna can be taken in both wars. In this war, we seek to get rid of units we do not want to promote, and to promote the units about to get a promotions. We can call the last war the Promotion War. These units would then be the core of the expeditionary corps, to take on overseas invasions, city assaults and so on. The Promotion War would be the last war to be fought with medieval equipment.

    What would you say is the most important new technology for our military?

    This question can be seen in three ways. The immediate technology, the technology needed for the next two wars and for scaleability.
    The immediate technology would be Astronomy, as it allows us to set up forward bases on distant islands. We really need to get force projections overseas quickly, before these few and important islands are settled. The technology needed for the continental wars would be Engineering, as Pikemen would easily kill the Roman Cavalry, and the double road movement for slow infantry would contribute to reduce war weariness and to make those wars more expedient. We now see the need for fast and less costly wars. Vassalage and Heroic Epic gives us the expertise and production level, but Engineering is needed for the wanted deployment of same troops. The long term, would of course be Replaceable Parts, as we need infantry for an overseas invasion. I sincerely do not think Military Tradition would be important at all, contrary to our good friend Joe Harker. Cavalry would have no bearing in future naval assaults, which I intend to run by Marines, and double road movement would carry strong infantry to our objectives. Scientific Method is a key part in this puzzle, as it reveals oil, which would determine how we handle the other continent in general. I am certain we would have oil ourselves, but the nation without oil, can be the best victim for an overseas invasion.

    What do you see as the role our navy will play in the short term and in the long term?

    Short term, we need to take out the Roman Galleys, which we should use to promote our caravels to move even faster (there is a promotion that gives 1 extra move). Mid Term, we need to explore our Western and Eastern Oceans, and immediately settle strategically located islands with Galleons (why we need astronomy now, not later, as part of Liberalism gambit). I also see it as a problem that development of port infrastructure has been badly neglected. NOTB was for example my idea, same as Port Khan, the city Methos just polled. All these port cities will produce the navies we need to win the game. For a Space Win, we may need to raid the key city of the main rival, both cultural and space oriented cities. For Domination or Conquest, we need transports for a modern naval invasion, WW2 style. This is why I am already planning to gear promotions away from Shock, Formation and Cover to more modern orientated promotions.

    Short term we only need caravels for the Roman War and for exploration. Mid term, we need Galleons with settlers and garrisons to take key islands. Long term, we need a combined naval force of destroyers, subs, carriers and transports, as well as a couple of battleships (if we want a domination win), customized to take on some objective. This navy would cost us dearly, which is why we should go for Nationalism after the last Roman War.
     
  16. GenMarshall

    GenMarshall Night Elven Ghost Agent

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    I decline my nomination since I am already running for an office.
     
  17. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    Of course the people has to discuss and poll this, that is the PC and obvious answer, requiring not much thinking. The cognitive and personal answer would be, to go for domination. Space would make the game focussed on building the parts alone, making the game less dramatic and more MM oriented, and reduce the element of chance that make the game fun. We are Mongols. Conquest would be too boring, as the last civ would be easy to take. Domination allows for some building, to gear our own continent for population, and some war, to lob us over 60 or so %.
     
  18. Joe Harker

    Joe Harker 1st in the Premiership!

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    Thats alot of writing! :crazyeye:
     
  19. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    This is exactly why I wanted to go for the vassalage civic, which I know was controversial. We should use this interim period to fight the last German and next two Roman Wars to both promote units we want and to get rid of units as cannon fodder. Shock and Cover would not be needed overseas, as a future war would be more industrial. Formation depends, but is not a priority, yet, may be useful to take on foreign cavalry counterattacks.

    We should use the vassalage period to build the best scaleable infantry we need to last us for the entire game. Longbowmen with double city garrisons for all cities, we can upgrade to infantry with same promotions.

    Scaleable assault infantry would be city raiders, medic, combat and a couple of others, even amphibious promotion. This is the promotions we seek in the next wars. All we need to build after the first Roman War, is double city garrison longbowmen/muskets, as well as city breakers, with combat, city raider promotions, Pinch and so on. The cavalry component would be specialized for either roles as counters, pillagers and flankers.

    I can see that I want to disband the non-experienced warriors and archers we have, which are the worst troops we have (4 in total). We also need to fight out the Shock and Cover specialists in these wars, if they get promoted fine (we may even use these to attack foreign low-tech units as a sort of Gendarmerie) and if they die, it is sort of ok.

    Generally, from an overview perspective, remember we got about 10 units we can disband right now, we got 10 elite units to keep/upgrade, we got 10 garrisons in place and we got some 10 units that can use upgrades later when we can afford it. Of all these units, we got about 10 units with medieval promotions we need to lose or promote the next three wars.

    The main idea we need to spend what we have here in three continental wars, where the first two happens in one go. We also need to get rid of units with no promotions at all, and we need to gear our nation for overseas invasions (making Amphibious Promotion preferred). This means that next generation warfare would target WW2 style technology, abandoning cavalry altogether.
     
  20. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    I think it can be done, if we gear our infrastructure (making the decision to build and develop Eastern ports, where the Aztecs came from), to focus on Astronomy and overseas techs and if we got the discipline to time our war for a WW2 type invasion with no cavalry against an enemy that preferably has no oil or oil easy to take out. This will also keep the attention to the game alive, and make it much more interesting than a space race, which would be a harder sell to keep our demogame ratings high. I think a smaller continent, a series of islands or an easily isolated peninsula are all easily obtained objectives to get us over the 60 % barrier of land domination. 40 % population is already easier.

    Conquest would be very boring in the endgame, same with histograph and Space Race would only appeal to some micromanager types.
     

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