Term 6 - The Senate Forum

[Cyc]

As with most things concerning Governors in this administration, the official Senate thread has been neglected. I am taking the responsibility of opening it now.

This thread is to be used for Senate business. Matters relating to the Laws under Senate jurisdiction will be discussed here as well as any issues concerning the Governors and their Provinces.

An election will be held to choose the Chair of the Senate. Nominations for this position will begin immediately and run until tomorrow evening (Midnight EST). Eligible candidates for the positon to Chair the Senate will be Governors only, as the Constitution states that the Senate will be comprised of Provincial Governors.

When Nominations end tomorrow night, I will post a poll in the Poll sub-forum listing the candidates. It will run for 48 hours. Between this time and the posting of the poll, it will be determined who shall be the eligible voters, The Congress or the Senate.

Untill such time when we have an elected Chairperson, Senators please feel free to discuss your issues.

Governors

North: Cyc
Southwest: Falcon02
Taliesin: Stuck_as_a_Mac
Rhineland: Goonie
Hafenland: Cheetah
Montis Abeo Gramen: Gingerbread Man
South Doughnut Coast: Ehecatl Atzin
"Sugar and Spice": Veera Anlai

 

[Donovan Zoi]

You've got to be kidding me.....beat me by 6 minutes

Good job, Cyc! I will see if my thread can be withdrawn.

Does the chair need to be a standing governor or can it be any citizen?

It matters not in my nomination. The Senate would run smoothly with you at the helm.

I nominate Cyc.

 

[Goonie]

Ill second CYC! Gotta love 16 year olds !

 

[Cyc]

Thank you, Goonie and DZ. I accept the nomination.

 

[Ehecatl Atzin]

I also support Cyc, he has proven to be a more than capable governor with Fanatika's interest in mind.
Now, changing the matter abit, I wish to discuss workers and their, um, ownership. If a province builds a worker, is that worker only usable for that specific province and should only move unto another one when the governor has released him. Or are workers part of the national goverment and the president has the power to use them in the nation as he/she sees fit?
I guess the real question is, who has control of workers?

EA

 

[Goonie]

I believe that if a province builds a worker, it should get the chance to use it for at least one improvement. I know that would certainally get more govenors to build workers.

 

[Cyc]

Well, not to change the subject matter, but...

As there was only one nominee (me), and I would have run uncontested, I suppose that makes me the new Speaker/Chairperson. Long live the Senate!

 

[Ehecatl Atzin]

Originally posted by Goonie
I believe that if a province builds a worker, it should get the chance to use it for at least one improvement. I know that would certainally get more govenors to build workers.

But having the chance to build just one improvement seems to hardly justify the effort of building a worker, having the city that built it loose population... just to have the worker go off somewhere that in no short term helps the province that built it. There are some provinces, The Rhinelands for example, with lots of cities and therefore alot of work to be done, while others, like The South Doughnut, with just 2 cities and therefore not that much improvement to be done. Shouldn't big provinces be in charge of their own improvements while other, smaller, farther away, newly conquered cities build their workers for their own use?

EA

 

[Cyc]

I'm not really sure I understand your last question, EA. I believe workers actually belong to the National Government. I don't think the Constitution clarifies who exactly the workers belong too, but it does state that the Governors are in charge of organizing tile development. Therefore, it seems that if worker action is to be done in a given Province, the governor should be setting the priorities for which tiles should be developed when and in which way. The DP is allowed to organize worker actions, but it's the Governors who decide which tiles and which improvements. There's a difference there.

I can see Gonnie's point too. And yes, more workers probably would be built if they were to do work in the province they were produced in before they were released to the State. The worker being produced in Androbius is earmarked for immediate transport to and assimilation into Kuhkaff as part of the Domestic Department's Size 12 Plan. Maybe earmarking a Worker before it is produced is the way to go about it. Say, "I need two tiles mined SW of Valhalla, so I will produce a Worker to get this done, and thenrelease it to the State (Fanatika)." What are your thoughts on a Governor doing some "earmarking"?

 

[Goonie]

I think it is an excellent idea. But I do believe(as a Canadian) that at a certain point we must turn it over to the Federal govt. I believe that the stronger provinces such as Rhineland should help the small ones like SDC, that need workers, but need to build culture.

 

[Cyc]

Yes, that's exactly what I meant about releasing it to the State (Fanatika). After it works one or two tiles, then a worker is realeased to the "Federal Govt.". I don't think in a deal like this that if a province produces a native worker that the DP would be allowed to swap it out for a foreign worker to do the Provinces work. This would be very hard to track and we would have to have a very trustworthy person in the DP chair. Hmmm...

 

[Ehecatl Atzin]

hmmm...wonder where the other governors are...well, I think you understood the question quite well the whole point of it was who actually has the final word on what workers do, governors or the president. I believe since the province is the one who actually built it, err, him/her, the the province should be the one who actually gets the lump sum of the spoils, sort of say. Since one of those cities will drop in population (and all that this implies) it is only decent for that province to use the worker first. Now, some provinces (larger and more established) can sustain the population drop better than others, ie recover the population quicker and build the worker quickly, while other, smaller, farther away cities tend to last longer at the building stage as well as in the recovery stage. So that worker should stay more in that province or be more usefull there before it is released into federal hands. Am I making myself understood? I'm kinda sleepy
Earmarking sounds like a great idea, (in PTW you can name each individual worker...) but how many actions should it do before it goes to the president? it should depend on the province and it's needs or should it be a solid, well rounded number of actions?
Now, about foreign workers..that's a whole other can of worms but also needs to be adressed, especially with our high numer of them. Do we assign them in pairs so they work somewhat more efficently? leave then to more secure provinces while national workers do more urgent work elsewhere, where jobs need to be completed quickly?

EA

 

[Cyc]

EA, I believe your second paragraph is the key to this discussion. The amount of work that a Governor would be able to "earmark" a worker for is tantamount to this whole concept. That will have to be discussed by not only the governors, but by Leaders and citizens too. First, should earmarking a Worker be allowed? Second, should the earmarked work be measured in turns or improvements? This whole concept might be a tough sell to the public. As you mentioned before, the lack of other Governor involvement is very noticeable. I would like to hear from all of the other Governors on this new concept. I will put a small message in their Province thread.

 

[Ehecatl Atzin]

hmmm...earmarking a settler...if the city is to be founded inside the province that built it, I see no problem with it, but of course, others can differ. Did you mean a settler or a worker?
I think the earmark should be measured in improvements, since some of them require more turns depending on the terrain, existing improvements, etc.
Selling it to the public..hmmm...perhaps a DP can override the worker action in an emergency. ....please define emergency
Hmmm..perhaps we should build this proposal up first here in the Senate (where it's safe, ) before we let it go into the public fangs,err..hands

EA

 

[Ehecatl Atzin]

EDIT --- I use a lot if hmmmmm's
Yes, blatant spam... can't help it

EA

 

[Cyc]

You're correct, EA. I meant earmark a Worker, not a Settler. I will change it now.

 

[Ehecatl Atzin]

Oh, another thing, does a province has a limit on the number of workers it has at any given time? Should it? Should it not?

EA

 

[Cyc]

That may be a little hard to gauge, especially with railroads being built. I would think that after Governor requests/instructions were covered by the DP, the "floaters" would be at the disposal of the DP. And that would be for roads and railroads basically, as in the North Province, over-development at this point would be harmful.

EDIT: I'm outta here. G'night.

 

[Goonie]

Earmarking Proposal by: The Grand Fanatikan Senate
*All workers that are built in a province may be earmarked for 2 improvements before control is turned over to the Federal Government to be used anywhere in the nation.
*Workers are earmarked when a govenor puts worker actions for that worker under the city in which it is being built in the build queues.
*Govenors may request that more improvements be built, but this is not a guaranted right.
*For a DP to disregard any earmarking is breaking the law and shall, if proven guilty, warrant impeachment.

Presented by Govenor Goonie of Rhineland to the Grand Fanatikan Senate


Look good?

 

[Shaitan]

Who keeps track of which worker is earmarked and the jobs that they are due for? I don't think that there is any workable way to organize that. A possibility would be to allow the governors to specify the first job that a worker will do after it is built. No record keeping that way. As soon as the worker is finished it becomes part of the national work force.

Regarding the different aspects of control between the DP and the Governors:

Governors plan the development of their provinces. Build a mine here, irrigate there, make a road between these two cities, etc. The DP decides what work will be done. The DP must choose which jobs are done and in what order, keeping the national agenda in mind. If province development hasn't been designed by a governor the DP must also decide on how to develop the province.

So the gov's fill out the work orders and the DP fills them. If the gov doesn't fill out a work order, the DP does that too.