Term limits abolished in Venezuela

[RedRalph]

from BBC

Venezuelans have voted to lift limits on terms in office for elected officials, allowing President Hugo Chavez to stand for re-election.

With 94% of votes counted, 54% backed an end to term limits, a National Electoral Council official said.

Mr Chavez has said he needs to stay in office beyond the end of his second term in 2012 so he can secure what he calls Venezuela's socialist revolution.

Critics say that would concentrate too much power in the presidency.

"The doors of the future are wide open," Mr Chavez shouted from the balcony of his Miraflores palace after the results were announced.

"In 2012 there will be presidential elections, and unless God decides otherwise, unless the people decide otherwise, this soldier is already a candidate."

Crowds of the president's supporters filled in the streets, letting off fireworks, waving red flags and honking car horns.

'Revolution saved'

The BBC's Will Grant in the Venezuelan capital, Caracas, says this was the kind of strong confirmation of his socialist agenda at the polls that Mr Chavez had been seeking.

"This victory saved the revolution," said Gonzalo Mosqueda, a 60-year-old shopkeeper, sipping rum from a plastic cup outside the palace.

"Without it everything would be at risk - all the social programs, and everything he [Chavez] has done for the poor," he told AP.

This has been the most unequal, the most abusive campaign of all

Leopoldo Lopez
Opposition leader

More than 11 million voters out of almost 17 million who were eligible took part in Sunday's referendum, said the head of the electoral body, Tibisay Lucena.

International observers said the ballot was free and fair, and opposition leaders were quoted as saying they would not contest the vote.

Even so, opposition leader Leopoldo Lopez told the BBC's Newshour programme earlier on Sunday that the campaign had been heavily weighted towards Mr Chavez.

"In 10 years we have had 15 elections, 15, and this has been the most unequal, the most abusive campaign of all.

"So that's why you are seeing more propaganda, more campaigning, more advertisement for the 'yes' vote."

Challenges ahead

Under existing constitutional rules, the president was limited to two six-year terms in office, which meant that Mr Chavez would have had to leave the presidency in three years' time.

A proposal to end presidential term limits was one of a package of 69 constitutional changes narrowly rejected in a referendum in late 2007.

The president now faces the daunting task of grappling with the global economic crisis in a country dependent on oil exports, our correspondent says.

Venezuela has the highest inflation in Latin America, he says, and there are serious domestic problems such as violent crime that Mr Chavez will need to tackle in the next four years if he is to repeat his success in the presidential elections of 2012.

So, just like Ireland, the UK and most European countries, Venezuela will no longer have term limits. He's going to have to get a grip on violent crime if he wants to win in 2012.

 

[Camikaze]

I would've thought that even with this referendum win, Chavez will still struggle to retain power after 2012. Discontent with his rule will most likely keep growing, as it does with most long-time governments. I would assume that by then, Venezuelans would be wanting some sort of change.

 

[Bast]

So, just like Ireland, the UK and most European countries, Venezuela will no longer have term limits.

Did any of them have referendums to change from term limits to no limits? - This btw, is a genuine question.

 

[Arwon]

Term limits aren't really applicable in parliamentary systems the way they are in presidential ones.

 

[Camikaze]

Well, parliamentary democracies don't have term limits, just like Australia.

Edit: Damn cross post.

 

[RedRalph]

Did any of them have referendums to change from term limits to no limits? - This btw, is a genuine question.

I cant speak for any other countries but we never had them, no.

 

[RedRalph]

Term limits aren't really applicable in parliamentary systems the way they are in presidential ones.

France dosent have a limit, does it?

 

[Dachs]

Some socialist revolutionary he is if he's assigning his stay in power - even if in part - to God's help.

 

[Arwon]

I have no idea about the French president actually. Given how the 5th republic came about, I would suspect it has no term limits. It's not really an exemplary parliamentary system, anyway.

RRW: Wikipedia says the Irish president is limited to two 7 year terms?

Edit: Wiki also says France introduced term limits last year under reforms passed by Sarkozy.

 

[RedRalph]

I would've thought that even with this referendum win, Chavez will still struggle to retain power after 2012. Discontent with his rule will most likely keep growing, as it does with most long-time governments. I would assume that by then, Venezuelans would be wanting some sort of change.

Well, it's a long way off, so who knows. He won this one by more than polls predicted. If violent crime keeps getting worse, he probably wont win. If the people who he has lifted out of poverty (poverty rate has halved since he became President) feel he has permenantly altered the structure of society so that they can never go back to the old system no matter whose in power, that might actually weaken him, and might not neccesarily be a bad thing if its for those reasons. Of course oil prices will be a factor, just as the economy in every country is. We really cant predict how things will be in 3 years, but for the moment Venezuelans clearly feel he should at least have the chance to have more time.

 

[Camikaze]

France dosent have a limit, does it?

Quick wikipedia-ing says that no, it doesn't have a term limit.

 

[RedRalph]

Some socialist revolutionary he is if he's assigning his stay in power - even if in part - to God's help.

Ehh.... he means if he's still alive he can run in 2012. and he is a christian and a socialist, not a communist so I fail to see the contradiction

 

[RedRalph]

I have no idea about the French president actually. Given how the 5th republic came about, I would suspect it has no term limits. It's not really an exemplary parliamentary system, anyway.

RRW: Wikipedia says the Irish president is limited to two 7 year terms?

The President does, but the president here is a figurehead and has no say at all in the running of the govt. An Taoiseach is head of government, and runs the country as the President does in Venezuela.

 

[Arwon]

Yeah, that conforms to what I was saying about the difference between parliamentary and presidential systems. I don't think you can directly compare countries where the head of government is a PM or Taso...glach... with countries where the head of government and head of state are the same person.

 

[Bast]

I cant speak for any other countries but we never had them, no.

Okay thanks. Which raises the question of WHY. His motives surely must be questioned.

Some socialist revolutionary he is if he's assigning his stay in power - even if in part - to God's help.

 

[RedRalph]

Yeah, that just conforms to what I was saying about the difference between parliamentary and presidential systems.

But in both cases the person who actually runs the country has no term limits. the office of an Taoiseach is the equivalent of the office of El Presidente, so to speak. and from what I can see in France its almost exactly the same system.

 

[Dachs]

Ehh.... he means if he's still alive he can run in 2012. and he is a christian and a socialist, not a communist so I fail to see the contradiction

Stop responding to my attacks on people who believe that there is an inherent contradiction between religion and social revolution in a serious manner dude it's not very nice.

On a more serious note, does this really change anything?

 

[RedRalph]

Okay thanks. Which raises the question of WHY. His motives surely must be questioned.

I think you'll find his motives are quite open, and as every election he has ever contested has been certified as free and fair (he's even lost some of them), this abolishment will apply to him and whoever succeeds him. Try all you want, but there is no way to accurately portray him as a dictator, anyone how does hasnt a clue what they are talking about.

 

[RedRalph]

Stop responding to my attacks on people who believe that there is an inherent contradiction between religion and social revolution in a serious manner dude it's not very nice.

On a more serious note, does this really change anything?

sorry. Hey Bast, did you get that?

It means he can run again in 2012, thats about it.

 

[Riffraff]

I wish we had term limits...