Terra Map is a fraud

[johnnybaseball]

I agree -- which is why I would argue that the player knowing the map and planning to OCC until astronomy is not cheating! This sort of self-imposed handicap/challenge is really about the only way to make it relevant that you are on a Terra map.



That certainly seems to be the most common perspective on this board. I think I would have lost interest by now if that were true for me.

Agreed - my most fun games are usually the ones where I get into the role playing aspect, especially on Europe maps.

 

[whyidie]

personally i think...

If you found a city in the industrial period it should be size 3 and have a few basic buildings, those founded in modern slightly more etc.

It would make it more attactive to do post astronomy colonization, plus it makes no sense that a colony founded in the industrial age has the same output as one in 4000bc.

I suggested many moons ago that, when you build a National Wonder, all subsequent cities that are founded should start with the building that is a prerequisite for said NW. The idea didn't get much traction, though, and I don't believe anybody made a mod for it or anything.

Great ideas. The problem Terra maps expose is the lack of need for expansion mid game. Its all about the early game when it comes to new cities.

Order was the only attempt at fixing this with Resettlement, but its too little to late.

Do hope they try to tackle this in the next release.

 

[reddishrecue]

Most civilizations in civilization 5 need astronomy to get to the new world in terra except for Polynesia since they could sail early. Polynesia could find it difficult to settle early though because of costs and money budget etc.

 

[George Abitbol]

The new world in Terra map should have very unique luxuries to make colonization viable. Or abundant strategic resources.

I played few games in Terra with BNW, and disappointed by the AI being passive, I overcrowed the Old continent with expansive civs (Rome, Poland, Russia, Germany) and they actually settled overseas. Poland had 3-4 cities by the modern era on the new continent.

Perhaps the Resettlement tenet in Order should be moved to the Exploration tree (3 pop for each city founded on a different continent)?

 

[ShakaKhan]

Just accept them for what they are. I enjoy playing Terra maps but agree that settling the secondary continent is usually counterproductive, but that isn't the sole purpose. There are many unusual characteristics of Terra maps that make them interesting to play -

1.) First off, there are three main map components to a terra map, not 2 (Old World and New World). There's the continent where all civs start, an archipelago off the Old World, and the New World.
2.) What I find to be the defining characteristic of terra maps is the early game real estate situation. The terra map as a whole is larger than a regular map, but the landmass that all 8 civs (standard size) start on is considerably smaller than a pangaea, which makes for some interesting dynamics:
-it's a frickin' powderkeg! All the AI's borders are meeting earlier, all the areas that AI's want to expand to are already occupied by someone else. So they are constantly warring with each other and more importantly, are unusually susceptible to war bribes and "lets war against" proposals.
-at moderate and higher difficulty levels, you're probably only going to be able to settle one city, maybe two besides your capital, so how are you going to deal with this? Two or three cities with Tradition can be very effective, especially for Aztec, Babylon or Korea. Another option would be to take advantage of the AI's lack of ability to expand off-continent and utilize the archipelago that is off of the Old World, a particularly good option for Japan, Carthage, and of course Indonesia. You can also respond to the early real estate situation by force, a great option for the early game siege guys, Assyria and the Huns.
3.)City states. At least 2/3 of the city states are on the New World and the AI seems to be less interested in getting astronomy (probably because they're too busy with the land wars with each other.) Which means that you can have a large number of, even the majority of the city states and have no one else competing with you for their influence.

Finally, the other maps don't have any huge mapscript-based bonuses either! I think some of the disappointment many players feel towards Terra map stems from the illusion that there should be some massive bonus achieved if you're the first civ to find the New World, partly because it's a defining characteristic of the map and partly because of real world history. But the fact is there is no big bonus, the closest thing is sole interaction with a bunch of CSs. But the other maps don't have any big bonus for "you cracked the map-script miniquest" either. There's no bonus on pangaea maps for unveiling all the pangaea tiles and no circumnavigation bonus for continents/archipelago maps.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I think this has been an issue of a few versions of civ.

I love the idea of racing to the new continent but it rarely seems worth it by the time you can.

That is even more the case nowadays in CIV V where additional cities have drawbacks.

I played a new world scenario a week or so ago, discovered america first but when it came to the crunch there was no benefit whatsoever in settling it. I just grabbed the huts and killed barbarians

It was not so bad in Civ IV due to how you could beeline the tech path (you could get Astronomy in the BCs for example, or lib sling to/near communism and run state property, making productive cities fast using food specials + workshop spam), though typically you were still best served bludgeoning the old world. That's just how civ scales its techs/military setup. And to be fair, the concept of "terra" is flawed as a premise; the new world nations are even represented in the game.

"New world" nations weren't as backwards and hopeless as some people like to claim. If you have a world where they're not getting massacred by smallpox + other diseases (everyone) + getting caught in civil war (Inca), you have a reasonable representation of alternative history sans disease modeling already by simply playing a continents map; a continent with fewer nations will progress slightly slower but if not murdered instantly will generally catch up.

Tl;DR: the concept of a Terra map has always been somewhat of a fraud setup anyway, for a few reasons. The limited utility of bothering to settle over there is among them, though the punitive nature of additional cities in Civ V unless you spec for all-out conquest is what sinks their viability in this game.

 

[den1998]

I played my first terra map today, and it felt to me much easier just to kill everyone than colonize

I think post astronomy colonization is not really worth it?

 

[beetle]

I think post astronomy colonization is not really worth it?

Correct. Hence OP assertion that terra map is a fraud.

 

[krc]

You do realize that you don't have to start in the ancient era, right? The Terra map is perfect for a renaissance era start. You then research astronomy as your first technology, and start colonizing the new world.... Spain becomes a guaranteed powerhouse in this setting, since they are almost guaranteed to be the first to find natural wonders in the new world. And if they find them by sending conquistadors, then they can immediately found a city next to them, and use the 500 gold to buy a worker and a unit (like another conquistador) to protect them from barbarians. Indonesia is also very strong, since they can colonize the archipelago portion of the world very quickly.

 

[beetle]

Well, I tried a couple Terra maps, not much of a sample, but I think that on Deity, even if you beeline astronomy, one or two AIs will get to the new continent as fast as the player. So for Spain, your only real exploit is to go Liberty and take a Great Admiral for the GP finisher.

Polynesia can of course take advance of Tera pretty much from T0.

Lots and lots of ruins in the new world, so that is fun.

 

[beetle]

If you want to settle the other continent, try playing on standard or epic speeds.

Epic or Marathon would be especially valuable to Polynesia -- since movement does not scale with game speed and while they can navigate oceans at T0, they are so very slow!

The late game ruins in the New World are also a nice bonus.

I had my longbow upgraded to a gatling gun by a ruin, which seemed odd to say the least.

Yeah, you can get one upgrade on any military unit from ruins. Particularly fun if you get a Keshik/Camel upgrade with a Chariot Archer.

The ruins were lots of fun when I tried this. With Liberty Spain, there is not much appeal to settle conquistadors. But I had three of them upgrade to cavalry!

 

[Mrdarklight]

I agree with the OP. Playing Terra is almost always pointless since by the time you get settlers there, its not good to be founding new cities. The only Civ I might recommend for it is Polynesia, and even that is sketchy. The only real upside for Poly is that you can scout out really prime city locations to spam Maois, but even that doesn't always pan out.