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Terracotta army, OP for Deity AI?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Arilian, Jul 5, 2013.

  1. Arilian

    Arilian King

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    Hi,

    I was checking wonder changes and noticed, that Terracotta army doubles your land army.

    While it can be powerful as a Player too, It can have a devastating effect on AI balance.
    If a warmongering civ builts it before attacking somebody, it can level his own continent before T150... Good Luck catching it up in Science. (Defending agains will be probably still ok, a human player can basically kill unlimited AI army if they have the same science level)

    It might be a goal to build this in deity preventively to avoid this, not for the actual effect...
     
  2. MadDjinn

    MadDjinn Deity

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    ha, no it's not that powerful, or at least not as powerful as you might think it is.
     
  3. Scott Jegg

    Scott Jegg Warlord

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    It's an early wonder, round about the time that building cities on hills and having walls is usually enough to repel most attacks, regardless of army size.
     
  4. Zeekater

    Zeekater hasn't been using drugs

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    IIRC you get one of each kind of unit you already have. So about 4 units, depending on your army composition.
     
  5. Ryoga

    Ryoga King

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    The AI has more happiness issues than before in BnW. I expect runaway AI to be not so amazing as they used to be.
     
  6. DeutschDachs

    DeutschDachs King

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    Horseman, pikeman, swordsman, cb, catapult. I guess you could get a second scout if you reallywant :lol: really probab ly justsaves 15 or so turns of building the units. Does it give any gp or culturebonus in addi tion?
     
  7. mitsho

    mitsho Deity

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    There are a few unit lines, so you get one copy for every unit line you posess.

    So, in a ideal situation, you'd get

    1 warrior or sword
    1 spearman or pikeman
    1 scout
    1 archer or composite bowman
    1 chariot or horsemen
    1 catapult
    1 trireme if it extends to ships (probably not)

    Did I forget something? 6 units is a nice boost, but it's not overpowered. It'd be more interesting if they have split up mobile melee and mobile ranged (even if they upgrade into each other), then you'd get both a chariot and a horseman.
     
  8. DeutschDachs

    DeutschDachs King

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    Nah, ships don't count, it's only land military units
     
  9. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    Is it one of each kind of unit or one of each unit type? Meaning, if you have a warrior and a swordsman, do you end up with two warriors and two swordsmen or do you end up with a warrior and two swordsmen? (I.e., are all melee units treated equally, all mounted units treated equally, etc.).
     
  10. Ogrelord

    Ogrelord Prince

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    Germania's converted throwing axe barbarian? gifted UU from Military CS, that is if no one bothered to build early game. But on deity, the A.I. will build it for sure. I don't think it's OP.
     
  11. SamBC

    SamBC Emperor

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    If the former, you have an incentive to keep one unit of each sort un-upgraded.
     
  12. BroOfTheSun

    BroOfTheSun Warlord

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    With gold hard to come by in the early game, you also have to take into account maintenance costs for units created from Terracotta Army. Since it doubles your land units, that means almost double maintenance for your current army. That wonder could very easily put you in the negative. I would only build it for specific situations.

    Maintenance costs will affect the AI as well. I don't see this wonder as OP for AI.
     
  13. Seek

    Seek Deity Supporter

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    Can you reveal how the wonder works exactly?

    Or are you trying to save some surprises for us?:p
     
  14. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    If it is individual units, then the max (assuming you only have classical units) is

    scout..25
    warrior..40
    swordsman..75
    chariot..56
    archer..40
    horse..75
    composite..75
    catapult..75
    spear..56
    ... so 9 (total value ~500)
    (more if you build it later and left one copy of each unit unupgraded)

    more likely something like 5-7 (say no sword, horse, archer.. so ~300 total value)
     
  15. Alatan

    Alatan Chieftain

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    If it isnt 9 (archer and composite etc) then it doesnt pay for itself. Those 9 units are around 500 hammers worth and the wonders is 250. If its only by attack type then its max of 350 hammers worth of units - 250 hammer wonder investment - you need to have many techs to achive it - you need to invest in building all those units - the risk of not geting the wonder- by the time you done all that most of the units need an upgrade. So i doubt it is by type of attack, ie ranged mele horse etc.
     
  16. mitsho

    mitsho Deity

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    Well, it's not clear how it "copies" the units, do you get the promotions copied as well or do you get a special promotion on it? I could ver well see the latter being the case. These new units could also be maintenance free? It also is a Great Engineer Wonder (right?) which are always more powerful.

    So just counting by the hammer costs may be too low. Can somebody do more data mining? ;)
     
  17. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Well it can't copy promotions... what if I have a Drill I sword and a Shock I sword?
    which gets copied?
    [Assuming that it copies unit types, ie 2 swords 1 warrior and it gives you 1 sword, 1 warrior]
     
  18. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    OK. That makes this wonder better for Germany than for others.
     
  19. mitsho

    mitsho Deity

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    The older one?

    But yeah, that'd lead to complaints...

    But they do have to come with some amount of experience, to not make barracks + Heroic Epic useless... And I really would assume a minor gold bonus to offset the increased maintenance costs.
     
  20. The Pilgrim

    The Pilgrim Deity

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    Deity AI gets 50% discount on units maintenance, it can support a big army. But it also is very dumb and I won't be surprised if it can't move TA units in the right direction from the city it's built in.
     

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