Test Version - October 8th (10/8)

[Funak]

when you say 'there are no gold or faith problem at starting' you create doubt in mind of some players (even me had to test and test to find a solution before understanding) and some can avoid to post their problems don't wanting to seem ridiculous.

I never said that there were no problems, I said that if you try to counteract the problems you can solve them. If you go out of your way to maximize your gold you're not going to struggle with early economy, you're probably going to struggle on other fronts, but your economy should be fine. Same with faith, if you go out of your way to maximize faith you'll have a fair chance to grab a religion, naturally the chance drops a great deal with every extra AI added and depending on which AI is in the game (I mean the new celts and whoever grabs the Stonehenge are going to get a religion no matter what, leaving a lower chance for you).
I'm mostly trying to point out that in almost all situations (there are clear exceptions, with extremely unfair starts) you stand a chance if you put enough effort towards what you want.

 

[Strec]

Once again I totally agree with that as you speak the developping step of the game, I've ever see that once in classical Era you may have enough tools to manage your yields.

I don't speak of bad starts but on some more harder civs to start than other.

When I did get a war-oriented civ (with adequate UA and UU) and start on Authority I was unable to maintain a sufficient army to correctly up my tree before rushing money givers (TR and Market), it's bad.

If I play on a Huge Map with few civs and huts, after some quick tests, I have no problem to do this in each case I'll got at least one of the next bonuses :

• My scout is tranformed in archer without terrain penalty. Ok I don't need an army, on warrior and the scout will destroy camps
• I get a faith bonus. Cool, I'll be able to choose my pantheon as I want.
• I get a production bonus. Yes! My shrine is up and my monument is half builded.
• I get 70 gold. Ok Let my buid some warriors, maintenance is ok.
• An so on

No problem with that, I was played like this before CBP and I will continue, I just say I can't honestly give an opinion or advice on balance.

When I did test and did have problem in my mind the question was : 'Is it unbalanced or have I done a mistake?'

Now my thought is 'Bad luck, will be better next time'.

 

[Funak]

Once again I totally agree with that as you speak the developping step of the game, I've ever see that once in classical Era you may have enough tools to manage your yields.

I don't speak of bad starts but on some more harder civs to start than other.

When I did get a war-oriented civ (with adequate UA and UU) and start on Authority I was unable to maintain a sufficient army to correctly up my tree before rushing money givers (TR and Market), it's bad.

Not rushing the two techs required for 2 traderoutes and markets is an active choice you're making.
Again I'm not saying that you're not allowed to play however you want. My point is that if you start in a location without goldbased tiles, planning on going Authority or Progress, and building a lot of units/buildings you're going to have to do some adjustments, or suffer the science penalty from negative gold income.
There is a pretty big leap between being able to 'play however you want' and 'every choice is viable'.

Also, this is just a personal opinion but I'll mention it anyways, I don't believe that your civ-choice forces you into a specific policy-tree in ancient era. Picking tradition on progress and building a steady powerbase before doing a timing-attack with trebuchets is just as viable.
Just as that I don't really agree with the main G's point that civs going authority would need to start early wars, building up for a later attack is just as viable.

If I play on a Huge Map with few civs and huts, after some quick tests, I have no problem to do this in each case I'll got at least one of the next bonuses :

• My scout is tranformed in archer without terrain penalty. Ok I don't need an army, on warrior and the scout will destroy camps
• I get a faith bonus. Cool, I'll be able to choose my pantheon as I want.
• I get a production bonus. Yes! My shrine is up and my monument is half builded.
• I get 70 gold. Ok Let my buid some warriors, maintenance is ok.
• An so on

I've played games without finding any huts, or only finding bad ones, like maps and/or experience. And while that does slow you down, I really don't think it is enough to make or break a game. I mostly use the huts because I think they are interesting, and add some variety to the early-game.

 

[callmewoof]

With respect, you're all nuts. Trading your resources and luxuries are the single biggest money source in the early game. Regardless of my policy choices, I consistently have +25/gpt average before turn 80ish (epic speed, deity). That's without working any merchant slots (although just today I noticed that towns are useful. Hmm), and without any given super magic goody Hut.

Got a new luxury? Only one copy? Trade it immediately. You can go a long way without having many/any luxuries at the start. 4 horse tile? Nice! Sell 2. Do you really need four horsemen to win a war? In this mod, happiness is nowhere near the same as vanilla. In the early game, the only luxuries I want are for We Love The King Day.

If it isn't an immediate benefit, it gets sold. Gold translates into quick buildings and even quicker instant units.

With warm regards, Woof.