Test Version - October 8th (10/8)

[Funak]

This is getting removed and I didn't even know it existed. I'm playing in the 8/1 version and I can't find it.

It was removed in the first testversion (I think), but like a few other things the changelog didn't reflect that.

 

[Funak]

By the way, master G, I noticed that this test-version included EUI, does that by any chance mean you've decided to upgraded to the latest version of EUI?

 

[Gazebo]

By the way, master G, I noticed that this test-version included EUI, does that by any chance mean you've decided to upgraded to the latest version of EUI?

Nope. I really don't see a reason to upgrade at this point, EUI works fine. Just includes changes for theming bonuses.

G

 

[callmewoof]

THANK YOU for the Celt balance. That +5 faith is such a quality of life. Previously, it was: Building Stonehenge, having a friendly faith city state, building shrines, killing units with your Celtic Faith Warrior UU, and then watching as the last religion is founded while you still have 30 turns to go. Seriously, best update ever. Release the patch now, it's done.

 

[Strec]

First return on the Authority update. I speak only of the early game (start ===>renaissance) because after classical you have all tools to play the game like you want and problems often come from mistakes <==========.

Culture :

• The lack of culture seems to be solved, at least on pangea non-crownded maps. Seeing the barbarians spawns permit to access quickly to them and gain enough culture and science to be competitive.
• To see on islands or crownded map

Gold :
No change, undoable (even I did lower the game level to King). But as there were no upgrade on the subject it's not a surprise.

The only way is to begin with caravans and market but if it solve the problem it make the policy absurd and unpleasant. You must prepare your economy and after that you can pusuit the barbarians camps, if not all destroyed by others AI which got policies giving gold

The only upgrade I see to solve THIS problem (very early game <===========) without unbalancing the others eras is to have a few free military units (5 for first tests would be ok I think).

 

[Funak]

Nope. I really don't see a reason to upgrade at this point, EUI works fine.

But... but... but... it is new... and shiny... and stuff.

 

[callmewoof]

The only upgrade I see to solve THIS problem (very early game <===========) without unbalancing the others eras is to have a few free military units (5 for first tests would be ok I think).

In an awkward way, it could almost be balanced by allowing something like 3-4 units free, and then declining that bonus per era. So you'd have something like 3 Maintenance Free units in Ancient, only 2 in Classical, only 1 in Medieval, and nothing free past that. So you'd literally decay the bonus over time.

Yeah, that's complete nonsense. Don't get me wrong. Literally a horrible idea. And definitely no 'historical reasoning' that I can think of. But for some reason it popped into my head. Please don't take this too seriously!

 

[Strec]

It's not a non-sense, as time pass it more and more difficult to have soldiers (but religious ones) working for free

 

[JediOmen]

For what its worth, more CTD. Quick game, turn 126ish, no diplo screen at all this time, looks like it dies while/after calculating Venice.

 

[Gothic_Empire]

For what its worth, more CTD. Quick game, turn 126ish, no diplo screen at all this time, looks like it dies while/after calculating Venice.

I'm getting random-ass CTDs the last few patches.

 

[Gazebo]

For what its worth, more CTD. Quick game, turn 126ish, no diplo screen at all this time, looks like it dies while/after calculating Venice.

Which version?

 

[JFD]

If it's any help, I've been able to run 150+ games on auto (and one I played myself) with the test version of the CP (haven't tried with CBP though)+several of my own mods.

Also, GetNumWonders() works perfectly. Can't find under what tag you added the LocalUnhappinessMod though (assuming it was included in this version).

 

[_Poke_]

I played a quick game on this with 3 civs. Lost spectacularly because I was on one continent and the other two on the other, so Byzantines had the whole game to reap trade profits and hit Industrial while I was still in Medieval. She crossed the seas and dominated me in tourism in about 10 turns. I suspect that'd happen even in a balanced version, since it was just a poor setup.

I do like where this Culture overhaul is going, since all the tourism bonuses are too small too late to mean much at all in Vanilla. I also didn't have any stability issues here which is a plus. That may be thanks to the short game I played though.

 

[Atlas627]

Just started a game, and I am pleased to see a wonderwhoring civ become Exotic over me in classical/medieval. I was not at all pleased to see the notification pop up every single turn despite me trying to close it or even to leave it alone.

 

[Gazebo]

If it's any help, I've been able to run 150+ games on auto (and one I played myself) with the test version of the CP (haven't tried with CBP though)+several of my own mods.

Also, GetNumWonders() works perfectly. Can't find under what tag you added the LocalUnhappinessMod though (assuming it was included in this version).

Sorry, I added the values, then removed them because of a bug, then forgot to re-add them.

JFD, Add these lines to your CoreTableEntries.sql file in the Community Patch/Core Tables/ folder.

-- New Buildings

-- Building Modifies amount of unhappiness provided by an individual city
ALTER TABLE Buildings ADD COLUMN 'LocalUnhappinessModifier' INTEGER DEFAULT 0;

-- Building Modifies amount of maintenance buildings cost in your empire.
ALTER TABLE Buildings ADD COLUMN 'GlobalBuildingGoldMaintenanceMod' INTEGER DEFAULT 0;

These values give you what you want. Negative values are 'good,' positive bad.

I played a quick game on this with 3 civs. Lost spectacularly because I was on one continent and the other two on the other, so Byzantines had the whole game to reap trade profits and hit Industrial while I was still in Medieval. She crossed the seas and dominated me in tourism in about 10 turns. I suspect that'd happen even in a balanced version, since it was just a poor setup.

Sounds like a good case of AI dominance.

But... but... but... it is new... and shiny... and stuff.

It's still in beta. If it comes out, and is a noticeable improvement, I'll consider it. Last few versions have broken a lot of my code.

The only way is to begin with caravans and market but if it solve the problem it make the policy absurd and unpleasant.

Honor isn't supposed to be an all-around perfect tree; none of them are, actually. Each has a 'missing element,' and Honor's is gold.

Sea civs were already disavantaged because of this, with the tourism system they will be more and more...

There is a difference of a complete Era between Caravansaries and Harbors.

Except overland trade was, technically, of more importance (historically) before the advent of larger sailing ships. Seems fair to me.

Does it actually scale with era? Seems a little unnecessary since it's a percetnile bonus. If it does, then how much?

It does not. I'll correct.

Are the bonuses from these two instances actually different by 5% or is it a typo? Also, have the tourism from the poor mint been scrapped?

Is correct. And no, the Mint gets the same 20% bonus for land/sea (so 40% total). I might make the Mint buildable in all cities to address this (remove resource req) and change the name (Mint is odd - perhaps Warehouse or something?).

Authority description indicates 'All' barbarians camps are revealed but I think (and hope) that's 'All barbarians on know terrain are revealed' ?

You are correct.

G

 

[Balllistic]

Latest update seems to have broken some Civ's UAs, reverting them back to what they were originally. (ie. William now retains 50% of the happiness from a luxury resource after trading it away.) Also, it won't let me scroll down on the leader selection screen anymore which from my experience is because one of the leaders is not loading properly.

Logs are attached, tell me if you need anything else.

 

[Gazebo]

Latest update seems to have broken some Civ's UAs, reverting them back to what they were originally. (ie. William now retains 50% of the happiness from a luxury resource after trading it away.) Also, it won't let me scroll down on the leader selection screen anymore which from my experience is because one of the leaders is not loading properly.

Logs are attached, tell me if you need anything else.

Looks like you didn't install it properly (your database.log is full of errors). Make sure to delete unnecessary lua folders and to clear your cache.

G

 

[callmewoof]

Quick notes - and I'll try to keep them related to Tourism. These are from deity games on the most recent beta.

AI beelines for Alhambra as if it were the best wonder in the entire game, every time. (And it IS good. TOO good if you ask me! hehe)

If you get the Progress Policy that gives you a free worker + all citizens get +1 moves, your workers will still lose all 3 moves if they move onto hills (or at least forested hills). As far as I understand, they should only lose 2 move and still have 1 left. I know that this can be the case with certain units. It feels like they have a mini-horse thing going on instead of a genuine +1 move. However they still have 1/3 moves left if moving onto non-hill forest tiles. I think desert tiles sap all 3 moves too, can't remember. Feels weird. Edit: Diplomat units don't have this issue (moving onto hills takes only 2/4 moves properly).

The AI seems to avoid Tradition like the black plague. It could be a coincidence though, but in 3 games 7/8, 6/8, 6/8, they went for Progress and Authority. I was playing with random personalities, so I suppose its just RNG. But it really feels like there's something in those trees that are luring them like honey. Feel like slow-building the Hanging Gardens on Deity? All yours!

Last, I don't think the Celtic UA is working properly.

Cities with your Pantheon neither generate nor receive foreign Religious Pressure.

But this picture says something isn't quite right.

Spoiler :

The +4 that you see is my religion. The other two Religions were already founded before the city was, so it isn't as if they got some bonus pressure from foundation. And there are no foreign trade routes to that city, either. Basically the game says they aren't getting the pressure, yet I believe they still are. And yes that is my pantheon in that city.

 

[Funak]

I played a quick game on this with 3 civs. Lost spectacularly because I was on one continent and the other two on the other, so Byzantines had the whole game to reap trade profits and hit Industrial while I was still in Medieval. She crossed the seas and dominated me in tourism in about 10 turns. I suspect that'd happen even in a balanced version, since it was just a poor setup.

I do like where this Culture overhaul is going, since all the tourism bonuses are too small too late to mean much at all in Vanilla. I also didn't have any stability issues here which is a plus. That may be thanks to the short game I played though.

The issue here is that since you had no one to trade with at all, you just straight up fell behind, this have pretty much always been the case, unless you're playing on something like prince or something in the basegame starting isolated pretty much kills you.
The new culture thing does increase that isolation problem a bit however, someone is bound to get cultural influence over someone on the island speeding tech up for everyone involved.
The culture from caravans thing is pretty oddly balanced for really small games as well, I mean on a duel map(2 players) you're going to get an average 60% culture to tourism conversion per 30 turns with 'all' players in game (assuming 3 traderoutes and caravansaries)
On a standard map(8 players) you're going to get 60/8 = 7.5% culture to tourism conversion per turn turns with all players in the game.

I do not, however, think this is a very big problem.

Just started a game, and I am pleased to see a wonderwhoring civ become Exotic over me in classical/medieval. I was not at all pleased to see the notification pop up every single turn despite me trying to close it or even to leave it alone.

Yes honestly, this is REALLY annoying, I mean there is a screen for checking peoples cultural influence over me already, I don't need a popup every turn.

It's still in beta. If it comes out, and is a noticeable improvement, I'll consider it. Last few versions have broken a lot of my code.

Understandable, but mods like that (and like CPP to be honest) are always in beta .

Honor isn't supposed to be an all-around perfect tree; none of them are, actually. Each has a 'missing element,' and Honor's is gold.

I don't really agree with what you're saying about all trees missing something, but I do agree that honor is fine, warfare isn't supposed to be cheap, and if you're not warring when picking honor(for whatever reason) you're pretty fine with the gold, a lot better off than liberty is pre-finisher to be honest

Except overland trade was, technically, of more importance (historically) before the advent of larger sailing ships. Seems fair to me.

Historically it really isn't that simple. Land-based and sea-based trade have gone back and forth a lot, and coexisted a lot as well.
I do however completely agree with your point about it being fine the way it currently is however.

Is correct. And no, the Mint gets the same 20% bonus for land/sea (so 40% total). I might make the Mint buildable in all cities to address this (remove resource req) and change the name (Mint is odd - perhaps Warehouse or something?).

Do we really need another tourism building? Especially one available in the same era s the other one? I mean just balancing everything out of one of them is going to give the same result.
You're either going to get a building that people just build everywhere just because it is a building, or you're going to end up with a building that is so expensive to keep around that people are just going to place it in their main trading city and send everything from there. Either way it doesn't really enhance the gameplay very much.

 

[Funak]

If you get the Progress Policy that gives you a free worker + all citizens get +1 moves, your workers will still lose all 3 moves if they move onto hills (or at least forested hills). As far as I understand, they should only lose 2 move and still have 1 left. I know that this can be the case with certain units. It feels like they have a mini-horse thing going on instead of a genuine +1 move. However they still have 1/3 moves left if moving onto non-hill forest tiles. I think desert tiles sap all 3 moves too, can't remember. Feels weird.

Yeah desert, snow, forested and jungle hills all cost 3 moves to move into. I think this is intentional, and it does make sense to me, I mean that jungle-hill isn't any less of a impassable jungle just because it is a hill, or any less of a stamina draining hill just because it is covered in jungle.

The AI seems to avoid Tradition like the black plague. It could be a coincidence though, but in 3 games 7/8, 6/8, 6/8, they went for Progress and Authority. I was playing with random personalities, so I suppose its just RNG. But it really feels like there's something in those trees that are luring them like honey. Feel like slow-building the Hanging Gardens on Deity? All yours!

I haven't really noticed this, in my games some AIs do pick tradition, it isn't really as common as it used to be, but it still exists.