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TH3 archipelago high seas tropics immortal

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by Dave Hartwick, Apr 18, 2009.

  1. Whosit

    Whosit Entropic Knight

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    THOR - Set 2

    Pre-turn: Turn 62, 2450 BC

    Oh, man! There's just so much to do! I don't know where to start . . . . I hit enter.

    Turn 64, 2400 BC

    Warrior is in, start on . . . the Great Wall! Ha, just kidding, but could you imagine on this map? How would that work if we'd already settled another island, too?

    Workboat and I have the workers start some pre-chops.

    I make a note to keep my eye on growth. Don't wanna blast past the happy cap.

    Turn 65, 2375 BC

    Only notable because borders expanded. Whales to the north, and gold on the western island. Promising?

    Turn 69, 2275 BC

    Nidaros: Work boat > Work boat

    I hope this isn't :smoke: but we're 5 turns from sailing, 5 turns for workboat. City grows in 3, and a settler would arrest that growth. I can rework the tiles at 5 population to stagnate, so I think that'll work out better in the long-run . . . .

    Plus, two work boats can scout more, depending on what's out there.

    Turn 74, 2150 BC

    Sailing is in, trading post is under construction. Oh no! I have to choose what to tech next! Um . . . I'm not so good at these early decisions, but let's see. I'm also conflicted about what to do with our Capital. Working a grassland forest shaves a turn off of the trading post, but working the lake cuts 3 turns off of research. Well, we'll be chopping anyway, so I'll take the 3-turn discount on whatever I end up picking . . . . I end up picking agriculture. Researching it will give us the full discount on pottery and animal husbandry, and at least this way we can hook up the wheat. Iron Working would take a while and we don't really need it right now, I think.

    Anyway, here goes nothing.

    Turn 75, 2125 BC

    A forest grows on the eastern plains. Yay! More chop fodder! Second chop is done, trading post will finish next turn.

    Wow, we have some really terrible land options available . . . .

    Turn 77, 2075 BC

    I decide to mine the grassland hill I laid bare. Getting extra hammer flow earlier will probably do more good than chopping right away.

    Turn 78, 2075 BC

    I belatedly realize that I can move off the lake tile and onto a forest tile. Adds 2 turns to research, but cuts 4 turns from the GLH, so it's most likely worth it.

    Turn 80, 2000 BC

    Judaism is founded somewhere beyond the distant waves.

    Turn 84, 1900 BC

    Mine finishes, cuts a few more turns from the build. Man, I would not envy anyone this land . . . nothin' but bits of land I'd barely call islands and some ice to the north.

    I send the workboats back home 'cuz they've found everything there is to find. No nice chains of coast on this map. We may want to make Optics a priority.

    Turn 85, 1875 BC

    Agriculture is in. Start chopping down some trees. I choose to research pottery so we can lay down some cottages at some point.

    Turn 93, 1675 BC

    Our telepaths, er, Oracles of Thor, tell us that the Great Wall has been completed . . . somewhere.

    Turn 95, 1625 BC

    Pottery is in. I make the questionable decision to research Writing (20) turns. Why? We're financial and still running 100% science. About to get the GLH (unless some foul cur snatches it from our hands at the last moment), a library would do wonders, I think.

    Turn 97, 1575 BC

    The Great Lighthouse is ours! And it does us jack squat right now. :lol:

    I slot in a galley so it can transport the settler I'll build next. I've considered ending here, but I think I'll prep a settler for the next player.

    I left some signs as to where I think the best places to settle on the other islands are. Fish n' gold makes me cringe because we'd have to settle on grassland to get the fish, but the fish is probably too valuable to pass up.

    Oh, I revolt to slavery. Our capital can grow back real fast from a whip, me thinks, so losing the turn probably won't hurt much.

    Turn 101, 1475 BC

    Surprise, surprise. We're tiny. For Livy's greatest work, he left a lot of blank spots . . . .
    Spoiler :


    Turn 103, 1425 BC

    Oracle gets claimed somewhere.

    Turn 104, 1400 BC

    Galley finished. Start a settler. Play with the tiles to shave a turn off (and 3 turns off of writing).

    Ah, that free Navigation I promotion from the trading post will be real nice . . . .

    Turn 106, 1350 BC

    Ok, made a boo-boo. I was gonna shuttle the worker to the nearby island to start a cottage 'cuz I can't think of what else to do on the home island. I thought I was real smart to say, "Hey! Let's send the warrior over, too, in case barbs popped up." Oops, unhappy people back home. I will fix next turn . . . .


    Turn 107, 1325 BC

    Warrior back, everything back on schedule. Sent a work boat out last turn to fog bust.

    Turn 108, 1300 BC

    5 turns left, can whip for 2. Yes! We have a ton of food (no granary as of yet, but that can be remedied.

    Turn 109, 1275 BC

    Ok, this'll be my end. Borders expanded, full few of west island, no barbs (yay). Slotted in a 1-turn warrior back home to be shipped over as military police for our eventual new colony. Capital will grow in 2 turns despite having no granary. Writing is due in 4. Workers are aleady off on the west island with a cottage underway for the new town (I'd recommend that we settle the west island first). We can get that gold, perhaps, and we'll get intercontinental trade routes, yes?

    Posting save, no time to put pictures up, though. Probably not even necessary with what we've got out there.
    Spoiler :



    We are certainly going to be the kind of Vikings who fly in from nowhere. Maybe. Honestly, this seems like a pretty terrible start for a go at Immortal, but at least it'll be an interesting ride.

    Turns:

    nocho
    Whosit < Just "played"
    Dave < Up
    Loki < In the wings
    Sengir
     

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  2. Dave Hartwick

    Dave Hartwick Prince

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    Hm, you say we're screwed for land but mention a site that has fish + gold, so that sounds better than TH1 already. Can't look at the save right now, but I assume my set will be all about settling. I also expect my tech path will be toward monarchy or currency. Another option would be to try for a religion, namely Confucianism.
     
  3. nocho

    nocho Deity

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    :confused: Since you always need either myst or mining you would always have the 20% discount... Then the base cost doesn't make much sense, because under no circumstance you need to tech the full base cost?!

    What do you want me to send that's not in my previous posts already?

    Sorry 'bout that, but that's what you get when you play the Vikings!

    Interesting...
    Spoiler :
    From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loki
    Thor arrives, and tells Loki to be silent, referring to him as an "evil creature", stating that with his hammer Mjöllnir he will silence Loki by hammering his head from his shoulders. Loki notes that Thor has arrived, asks Thor why he is raging, and says that Thor won't be so bold to fight against the wolf when he swallows Odin at Ragnarök. Thor again tells Loki to be silent, and threatens him with Mjöllnir, adding that he will throw Loki "up on the roads to the east", and thereafter no one will be able to see Loki. Loki states that Thor should never brag of Thor's journeys to the east, detailing that there Thor crouched cowering in the thumb of a glove, mockingly referring to Thor as a "hero", and adding that such behaviour was unlike Thor. Thor responds by telling Loki to be silent, threatening him with Mjöllnir, and adding that every one of Loki's bones will be broken with it. Loki says he intends to live for a long while yet despite Thor's threats, and taunts Thor about an encounter Thor once had with the jötnar Skrýmir (Útgarða-Loki in disguise). Thor again commands Loki to be silent, threatens Loki with Mjöllnir, and says he will send Loki to Hel, below the gates Nágrind.[19]


    Good call on not going settler first, I didn't put much thought into that suggestion. And as far as I can tell, good set, Whosit! I'm happy we got TGLH. Now it's rex time with our limited lands. Well, potentially we have 7 cities and in TH1 we didn't have much more lands either. And maybe with border pops we can cross to more islands like in TH1.
    Gold-doublefish surely must be next site, but if I see correctly maybe 1E on the forest. Too bad of the forest but gives an extra grass tile next to the gold and another one on main island SW of stone. Max out the land tiles!
    I would settle the eastern plain of Nidaros, sharing some tiles. Especially early game Nidaros cannot work all those tiles all the time, so better use them fully.

    Ok, we are not very lucky with the lands we're given, especially after TH2. But I'd sit this out at least till optics and meeting AIs to see if we still would have a reasonable shot at this.
     
  4. Sengir

    Sengir Deity

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    According to this link it is right. Don't know why they did it this way.
     
  5. nocho

    nocho Deity

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    Interesting. So if I understand correctly all non-starting techs get at least a 1.2 discount of nominal beaker cost? Well, maybe that's why BW also came in sooner than expected.

    On the game, what do we tech after writing? IW seems fine to me. After that, maybe we should get to monarchy soonish for a higher happy cap, since we only have one happy resource. If we do that through monotheism that would leave the possibility of bulbing theology if we get a GP.
    But of course Aesth-Lit and the route to CoL-CS are interesting options too.
     
  6. Dave Hartwick

    Dave Hartwick Prince

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    I'm thinking polytheism > priesthood for my set, leaving the interesting decision of monarchy or code of laws to Loki. Polytheism rather than meditation as it's a requirement for literature, which we may want for the obvious reason.

    My other question: how hard should I push for the Pyramids? The fish + gold site has 2 hills and a couple forests, I could start it on them right away.
     
  7. nocho

    nocho Deity

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    Pyramids may be worth a shot, but try it in Nidaros (it sounds as if you'd try in goldfish). I understand the settler and galley are ready for goldfish and we even have WB(s) to hook up the fish. It will grow fairly rapidly and can then spit out more settlers while Nidaros is on the mids. It's just that Nidaros has superior production.
    If gold is hooked up fairly quickly it could grow to 6 and then work stone, 2 hills, wheat, 1 clam and 1 forest for 15 hammers a turn. Mids with stone should be 375 so it could be done theoretically in 25 turns, when Nidaros is fully grown, which sounds reasonable enough to try, imo.
    Of course start on it right away, so it'll be more turns but you get my drift. And there are still some forests to chop into it on top of that.
    If we go for mids, maybe better to go for CoL as monarchy is less needed should we actually achieve building mids and go rep. And should we miss it, the double gold is a nice bonus for deficit research to CS, or anything else for that matter.
     
  8. nocho

    nocho Deity

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    Just checked the save and by turning on the tile yields I think there must be land both to the SW and to the SE of our island! :)

    So maybe just for reaching out to that land we'll have to settle at some point at the eastern plain and the south western desert.
     
  9. Dave Hartwick

    Dave Hartwick Prince

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    My set turned out to be frustrating. I revealed a flyspeck island, lost the Pyramid race, and lost the Confucianism race for good measure.

    1295 flag maintenance, press enter.

    1250 Nidaros warrior > Pyramids (need a settler, but I wanted it to grow.)

    1225 Uppsala founded at Fish n Gold flag, set to build granary. Nidaros switched to settler.

    1175 Writing in, Polytheism in 11.

    1075 Adam Smith born in Nid, takes one look around and decides to settle down. Whip settler into the Mids.

    1000 Haithabu founded at desert corner of main island, set to build granary.

    900 Poly > Priesthood.

    850 Uppsala's borders expand and I'm ready; worker starts mining the gold, new fishing nets go up, and Haithabu gets to work the old ones.

    775 Priesthood > Code of Laws. I was going to stop here and now I wish I had, would've saved me some aggravation.

    725 Pyramids built, but not by us.

    700 We get 250 gold for the consolation prize.

    750 Nidaros granary > worker (later started building warriors there for garrisons, the others are building settlers).

    625 Haithabu border pop, send the galley to have a look.

    600 Confucianism founded, but not by us. I stop taking notes.

    380? Really? Code of Laws in, tentatively set research to Monarchy.

    No-food Flyspeck.
    Spoiler :

    Grim demographics.
    Spoiler :
     

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  10. Whosit

    Whosit Entropic Knight

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    Hmm, well, you can't win them all, especially on Immortal, I take it. Land situation is concerning, though. Well.

    What are our chances for rushing to optics and Caravels? Try for the circumnavigation bonus and finding the AIs to trade with? I know that it sacrifices the rest of the tech path, so is it feasible or a good idea?
     
  11. nocho

    nocho Deity

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    Looks tough indeed. Well, let's settle what we can and see where we stand after that.

    Monarchy to me looks good, let's grow Nidaros a bit and hire some scientists, after library of course. Maybe we should think of GL as well. And of CS. And optics. Darn, a lot of important things to go for!
     
  12. Dave Hartwick

    Dave Hartwick Prince

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    Well, Loki's up, maybe he can come up with something. If we can score a couple decent size islands, that'll help a lot.
     
  13. Loki Strikes

    Loki Strikes Prince

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    I will play now, it looks good to me, there are a couple more spots to settle, I will agressively pursue that, I would vote economic techs as we are not going to be first to optics (or astronomy probably) on immortal,which is okay.

    Few gripes:
    We delayed Monarchy wayyyyyyy too long, if we really want religion a philo bulb would probably be the way to go, have we had a GS yet we will need a couple I am thinking, philo bulb + academy in Nidaros...
    GL without marble on production poor... would require tech detour and would take up too many of our resources, so I would vote nay, Monarchy - CS - paper-edu-lib with a philo bulb seems like a good plan, we will probably have met the AI's at this point and can probably trade for optics and take astronomy or something else with lib.
     
  14. Loki Strikes

    Loki Strikes Prince

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    Okay I played a semi long set here (through CS) and things are looking pretty good right now

    I started out churning out a few settlers, adjusting builds/swapping tiles etc.
    Around 1 AD the Great Library was built, ending that debate


    After Monarchy, I let the capital grow, had it build warriors to expand happy cap, next person should continue doing so.

    Got a library up and ran 2 scientists in capital but still got this

    Settled for +2H + 5G

    Settled quite a few cities, we have 3 more definite cities that need to be settled and then maybe more pending exploration with our borders, remember we can travel on ocean if it is in our cultural border with a galley so keep an eye out for coastline near our borders

    Stopped here


    Selected currency as our next tech, trade routes will really help, after currency I would probably go straight to lib in all honesty... next GP if scientist (PLEASE RNG) we need an academy in the capital ASAP, don't bother with a phil bulb we will just have to self research

    Current empire, with 2 of the 3 new cities marked, the most urgent new city we need is the super sea food on ice one


    Capital as of 250 AD


    Demographics are improving big time (#2 in GNP we need MOAR CITIES)


    Forgot to log with BUG, haven't played in a while as I am sure you have noticed :lol:
     

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  15. nocho

    nocho Deity

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    Yeah, let's build on our economy, it's the strongest point we have. :)

    So currency and then onward to edu/lib I suppose.
     
  16. Dave Hartwick

    Dave Hartwick Prince

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    I see Sengir online, so I'll give this a bump as he's up, with nocho on deck.

    So far as I know we haven't had any great scientists. Philo bulb sounds good if we do get one, but then, so does an academy.
     
  17. Sengir

    Sengir Deity

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    Hadn't noticed I was up, should have time to play tonight, so this is a got it. Will try to post plans beforehand.
     
  18. Sengir

    Sengir Deity

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    I'm going to play in half an hour or so.

    Plan looks simple enough: get the last three cities up; Build some more cardboard cutouts for happies in the cap, maybe try and get another galley out as well, though that might not be necessary yet.

    Tech:
    Currency and then?
    Either go straight to lib: paper > edu > phil > lib
    Or go the optics route first?
     
  19. Loki Strikes

    Loki Strikes Prince

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    Sengir, we are teching rather slow, I think the AI's will meet us very soon, AI's like optics, and on immortal get there quickly

    I would advocate a straight lib beeline, maybe go philo-paper-edu-lib, philo first so we can run pacifism...

    Our GS should be used for an academy, no question in my mind. While a philo bulb is great, we have no one to trade with, and an academy would be a huge boost to our research.

    I will rarely bulb philosophy if I do not have an academy in my capital, only exception would be I am behind techwise and would get some hugely beneficial trades, we are isolated and have second highest GNP, a bulb seems kind of silly

    Regardless of bulbing, I think philo would really help if we can grab the religion + pacifism, also if we grab tao it is unlikely AI's will research it themselves for quite some time.
     
  20. Sengir

    Sengir Deity

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    Turn 190:
    Everything looks good; go through the cities, whip a bit.

    Turn 191:
    Crappy event:

    I pay the money because the food bar was nearly full.
    Someone build the chicken.

    Turn 192:
    Start settler in Nidaros
    Rommel (GG) bifal

    Turn 195:
    Found fish/ice town (Tonsberg)

    Turn 198:
    Found Sigtuna on main-island

    Turn 199:
    Currency comes in, boosting our economy from -6 to +3 on 60% science
    Mull over what to pick next, decide to go for paper and wait for some AI to meet us instead, but check this thread in the hope for some opinions.
    After a bit more mulling I agree with Loki that Pacifism will be a boon and it might keep the AI from researching it, so start Philo instead. Need meditation first though.

    Turn 200:
    Med in start Philo, will probably play untill it is done. Tao is still out there.

    Turn 204:
    Taoism has been founded :(

    Turn 205:
    Parthenon got build.

    Turn 208:
    Settler for last dot is ready as well.
    Nidaros starts a market.

    Turn 210:
    Lodose is build on the one-tile island.


    Turn 213:
    Sigtuna's borders pop to reveal reachable copper, so whip Nidaros' market and get it started on a settler.

    Turn 214:
    Philo comes in, select paper for now.
    Civ crashes as I try to look at Nidaros, no idea why. Autosave works fine.


    Uppsala is building another workboat for the ice-fish town, it needs another one after that. Sigtuna has a wb on the way. We probably should whip out another galley sometime soon as well, to make logistics a bit easier. The workers are roading because we've improved all tiles, though we might want to swap some.

    Tech: I would continue on the lib path, we will probably have contact with an AI in the next turnset, if things go as Loki expects (and I think they will).


    Land east:
    Spoiler :

    Settling it is priority now.

    Roster:
    nocho - Up
    Whosit - On deck
    Dave
    Loki
    Sengir - Just played
     

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