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TH3 archipelago high seas tropics immortal

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by Dave Hartwick, Apr 18, 2009.

  1. nocho

    nocho Deity

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    I'm afraid I won't be able to get to this before the weekend, so I propose you take it anyway, Dave. At least your weekend must start 8 or 10 hours before mine does. :p
    My agenda suddenly got filled up and yesterday I couldn't even look at the save as Barça clinched a spot in the CL final at the jaws of defeat. :D
     
  2. Dave Hartwick

    Dave Hartwick Prince

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    Looking to play within 24 hours, would love some ideas, but too dang lazy to actually look at the save and post a plan.
     
  3. nocho

    nocho Deity

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    I finally looked a bit more properly at the save.

    I think it's best to trade Steel for SM with Hammi. Despite all religious differences somehow the AIs in general kind of like each other. Justy is indeed incomprehensibly loved by most. Anyway, Hammi is not the biggest thread to us and not that popular so I'd trade it with him.
    Then I would definitely hire 2 more specialists in Tonsberg, or even 3. That way it will generate a Great Person before Nidaros does and it has much higher odds than Nidaros of generating a GS. That way we may indeed partbulb Physics right from under Justy's nose as Sengir already suggested.
    As Joao is big palls with Hammi maybe we could give him steel for economics and theology (as backfill). Maybe he'll like us even better for it too. These techs may not be that useful but well, at least economics opens up Corporation. Wait, we have TGLH which obsoletes with corp, mmm. :hmm: Other option is to wait and see if he at some point will trade nationalism or biology which he's researching right now.

    And have a look at the resource/gpt deals. Monty has 7gpt+corn for crab and clam (we do suffer some health problems so corn is nice), stone deal might be improved with Justy.
     
  4. Whosit

    Whosit Entropic Knight

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    Speaking of corporations, were we planning to go for any of them? We could just stuff as many as we can into our capital, spread to our cities and/or others' depending on what's best. Could help out on income, yes? Sid's Sushi seems like it would make sense on a watery map. Mining Inc. for more hammers? I'm not an expert on corps., but those always seem so popular!
     
  5. nocho

    nocho Deity

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    I think at this point we shouldn't get corp in order not to lose TGLH yet. The extra trade routes are too important for our economy, especially if we beeline mass media. But I'm no corp expert either. Maybe only if we have a correct great person already, ready to build the corp we want straight away.

    OTOH I was thinking that if we want more trade value for steel, maybe 1 turn of research into nationalism will make AIs trade it away. A bit of a gamble maybe but could be worth it. Although also depends if we really want it. Maybe for urgency drafting if we get unexpectedly dowed.
     
  6. Loki Strikes

    Loki Strikes Prince

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    Nocho we can probably get nat for steel without a turn of research to begin with, I agree on avoiding corporation, we don't need it, straight beeline to Mass Media build UN and make sure to ferment dischord in the world while making everyone love us.
     
  7. Sengir

    Sengir Deity

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    Is someone playing this?

    Plan:
    Beeline straight to MM, avoid Corporation like the plague, pray for a GE, get UN build.
    Grow cities for UN votes, try to keep most people happy (or at least happier with us then Just). If opportunity arises, try to set the AI up against Just.
     
  8. nocho

    nocho Deity

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    Theoretically Dave is... He sounded quite busy though the end of last week but it seems his weekend was as well. So Dave, if you want me to take it just give me the call!

    The plan must indeed be what you just outlined, Sengir. I especially like the praying part. :D
     
  9. Dave Hartwick

    Dave Hartwick Prince

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    I have to drop out. The home PC took a poot and I don't want to risk installing Civ on my work computer.
     
  10. nocho

    nocho Deity

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    Drop out? :( How are we supposed to finish this without the spiritual father of the TH-series? Hope you somehow manage to get your PC to work or a new one, Dave, and that you're back soon.

    I'll get this then for today or tomorrow.
     
  11. Sengir

    Sengir Deity

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    Sorry to hear that Dave.
     
  12. Loki Strikes

    Loki Strikes Prince

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    Who will lead TH without teh Dave... should we suspend after this game? Anyway Nocho go ahead and play
     
  13. Whosit

    Whosit Entropic Knight

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    Come back to us soon, Dave. Though you will be missed, it is probably a wise decision not to load Civ at work.

    At least it is not your spirit that's broken.
     
  14. Dave Hartwick

    Dave Hartwick Prince

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    I hope you all don't suspend this as I'm interested to see how it turns out. If you wait until I can play again it'll be next year-- no budget in this one for a new PC.
     
  15. nocho

    nocho Deity

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    Good that you at least stay on as honourific superlurker, Dave!

    I played my (shortish) set, will report tomorrow morning as it's getting a bit late now.
     
  16. nocho

    nocho Deity

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    Inherited turn (T309): all looks well, can't find any useful MM-ing to do. However, I do assign 2 merchant specialists in Tonsberg, which brings down the next Great Person to 8 turns, just before Nidaros would (due in 9). Currently Tonsberg has 84% of popping a GS, much higher than Nidaros (somewhere in the 30% range) and, moreover, it keeps hopes alive of popping a GE next in Nidaros for rushing United Nations.

    Renegotiate the stone deal with Justinian, now for 15gpt.
    Montezuma has corn and 7gpt on offer, in two seperate deals I take both for clam and crab.

    I ponder for a long while whether to put a turn in nationalism and hope someone will trade it for steel, as getting just one tech for steel seems below par. In the end I bite the bullet and take scientific method from hammurabi and go physics immediately after, hoping for the best. In the pic you can observe I actually selected nationalism for a while, but nothing was put into it.


    T310 Hammurabi enters a Golden Age. The best did come and all AIs with nationalism are willing to trade it. So I take this deal with Joao.


    For good relations and because we may want free market I make a deal with Qin. I don't revolt to free market however, as it is two turns of anarchy and don't want to risk losing Physics over it.


    I remember Sengir's suggestion of gifting liberalism to Asoka for diplo points and because free religion is his favorite civic. After the trade he won't take free religion however until the end of my set (but may have missed it). I wonder if leaders of colonies have their normal traits or if they inherit something from their motherland.


    T311 We found the outlying city of Kaupang. Forget to take a screenshot at this moment but a few turns later it looks like this.

    Founded on a plains hill for extra hammers and with seafood in the first ring since border pop is a bit harder to come by now we can't build monuments anymore so it can work its sea food right away. Now think that I could have built culture some turns and founded it 1NE, but like this will do as well.
    Notice the barbarian cities. Look interesting to conquer but the two I checked had 4 longbows in them each and our military is that weak that it's no easy cherry picking as yet.

    T312 Justinian builds Versailles. Asoka proposes another deal. Well, why not.


    T314 I whip the courthouse in Haithabu and start a university. Maybe a bit of a :smoke: decision as it will take forever, has minimal benefits and we'll never get enough universities for Oxford. We just have the one in Nidaros.
    In general didn't whip much, apart from some granary or workboat in the newest cities. We'll have to grow for an eventual UN vote.

    T317 People are not scared away by the ridiculous liquor prices in Oslo. In fact they all want to go and live there.


    I held my breath as the GP in Tonsberg was coming in. The GS% was down now to 77, but that proved to be enough. :dance:

    I put the beakers into Physics. All 2664 of them as can be observed, but it just shaved 4 turns off of Physics. I had hoped for more but it is enough to beat Justinian to it.

    T320 We are the first to Physics and get the free great scientist. I stop here for discussion on what to do next. I moved all units, but the GS in Nidaros. The current tech situation looks like this:


    We can either use the GS for an academy in Nidaros or for a bulb. I would suggest the academy, as longer term that obviously is more beneficial, especially if we don't manage to win by UN vote and this game goes on after mass media... Right now we would actually bulb biology. As soon as we have biology, it could be electricity, that can be consulted on that famous techbulb list which I don't have at hand right now. Maybe we can trade for biology as Joao is researching it. That's not visible anymore, but he was on it in the first half of my turns and he must finish it soon. But he may not trade it away. Anyway, as said I think I prefer the academy. A golden age would be nice too, but not having an academy in our major science city feels so subpar. And for a GA there may be an other option looming...

    I set research to electricity, due in 18. Nothing too wrong with that, but for the sake of discussion and because it may be worth it, we could also make a detour to communism. Nobody is researching it yet and the free great spy could be used for a very worthwhile golden age. I think we haven't had one yet (well, in the pic where we got a GS in Tonsberg the option of firing off a GA is there, so 1 GP should suffice). Apart from the obvious boost in everything, the GA is the ideal moment to change civics which I think we should and it saves a lot of turns of anarchy, compensating large part of the detour to communism. We can trade for constitution and probably rather soon after for democracy to get representation or US as well. Giving up slavery has obvious disadvantages, but also huge benefits if we take representation and caste and hire incredible amounts of scientists everywhere. If we want to grow pop now we may not want to whip much anymore anyway. If there's too much pop, just hire scientists!
    Well, as said if we get the great spy from communism we can do these major civic changes for free. Communism itself may be used for trading as well. The only risk in getting communism probably comes from Justinian if he decides to go for it after he finishes physics, but we'd have a head start of 2 turns on him. Need be, we can beg for money to everybody for fueling deficit research.

    To end, here's the relations screen.

    Hammu, Joao and Qin like us better than they like Justinian. Even Monty does, but that's irrelevant at -4 vs -7. We should maybe work on relation with Gengis and Asoka.
    I don't know how voting for UN works however. It must be more complicated than merely comparing the diplo points between the two contenders.
     

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  17. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    Had a look at the save. Your army seems pretty weak. You're ok at the moment but once GK and/or Monte get astronomy then they may come visiting with hostile intent.
     
  18. nocho

    nocho Deity

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    Hey pigswill, thanks for the lurker's interest! I think "pretty weak" is still overestimating our army! It's horribly weak and even the barbarians look daunting as compared :lol:.

    At least GK and Monty have other worst enemies atm. But indeed it may be a good idea to start pumping more units. Nidaros can help with that after finishing its custom house, as it's one of the few cities with decent production. On these very watery maps production is a problem anyway. Ours is horrible but IIRC according to demographics we're number 2 in production, so at least AIs are suffering the same thing. Then again, Monty and GK are recognized troop spammers so will most likely outdo our military easily (apart from Asoka we're indeed last in # soldiers). If need be we can adopt nationalism and do some emergency drafting. And of course try to be everybody's best friend :).
     
  19. Whosit

    Whosit Entropic Knight

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    Hmm, looking at that diplomatic screen, it seems like we're a bit more well liked than Justinian, though would an AI vote for us rather than him just because we're +10 and he's +9? Still need to find the way to get the hate on. At least Monty and Khan are backwards.

    Definitely the Academy in our capital, and . . . . I think the diversion to Communism might be good. How long 'till the next GP? With luck it will be that Engineer. Anyway, after Communism, definitely the Electricity to Mass Media route. If I recall, the AIs tend to favor that route, so perhaps they will bypass Communism for the time being. The only question will be when to leverage Physics. Maybe once we see them going for it en masse? Guess we could always trade it for Constitution, worst comes to worst.

    Anyway, sounds like a solid set to me! Land is definitely an issue, but let's keep settling. If there's any way that we can find just one other site for a production city, let's settle that with haste. We need a potential military pump aside from the capital. Heck, we could put the National Epic elsewhere, I think, could make up some of the difference even with only average hammers. Gotta make sure that our navy is in good shape and that our outlying cities have decent garrisons.

    If we ever get the chance, a few airships would be nice to keep an eye on things and to bomb anyone who attacks us. But that may be a pipe dream considering the hammer situation.

    Oh, and the original roster went something like:

    nocho
    Whosit
    Dave
    Loki
    Sengir

    Just now minus Dave. I guess I'm up. OK, I can play some today. I'll wait a 'lil bit to see if anyone else has any comments on the tech path, but our sets look pretty straightforward at this point. It would be just my luck if someone Declared on us during my set, though.
     
  20. nocho

    nocho Deity

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    Let's give Sengir and Loki (and Dave if he wishes) some time to comment on the communist detour, for if they totally disagree.

    I wouldn't worry about that too much, but as commented I would start pumping some units. And at least we've got no Tokyo to lose... :p;) Just kidding!
     

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