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TH3 archipelago high seas tropics immortal

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by Dave Hartwick, Apr 18, 2009.

  1. Whosit

    Whosit Entropic Knight

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    Ouch, man. Ouch. :lol:

    Maybe that'll be my legacy. I could put it in a signature: "Whosit: Losing Tokyo since May 2009!" :crazyeye:
     
  2. Loki Strikes

    Loki Strikes Prince

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    I vote no on the communist detour and would suggest a GA with the scientist as painful as it is, I just don't see much game left and I am just not sure if an academy would outproduce a GA in the long run. The golden age lets us jump to free market (more awesome trade routes) as well as boosting our beaker + hammer production which I feel would probably come out ahead of the academy at this point.

    I vote again straight through electricity - radio - mass media, lets get this done with.

    QSH will votes for us I am pretty sure as he is more friendly with us than Justinian, this game is looking good, lets grow us some pop and remember to give into demands. I am not overly worried about our lack of an army with GK and Monty, size of army does not deter an AI unless it is like 1.6 times or more the size of theirs so it doesn't matter if we have no army or 1.5 times the army of them in terms of declaration logic. If they go WHEEORN we can bribe someone against them and then dogpile for phony war + diplo bonus or we can just stock up on defenders with the whip because we will know it is coming.
     
  3. nocho

    nocho Deity

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    Ok, an immediate GA with the GS is fine with me too. Painful maybe, but well, it was a free GS and getting a free GA for reaching Physics first is also a nice bonus! And getting free market straight away will be beneficial, 5 trade routes per city rock.

    I was thinking about getting representation somewhere during the GA after somehow trading for constitution (Qin is 6 turns from it as well), but then realized we will lose +4 relations with Joao as HR is his favorite civic and nice as the bonusbeakers from rep may be, I think we can't afford losing the diplo edge with Joao we have over Just (we'd end up even on +8 each), so we must stick with HR. And if we won't run rep then caste as I suggested as a possibility loses its attraction as well, so sticking with slavery must be best.

    I hope the UN won't let us down though, I never trust those votes too much... But well, as scandinavians I guess we like international organisations :). Indeed must give in to demands (apart from Just maybe) and let's make sure we at least get or maintain the +4 trade bonus with everyone. We may give some older tech to Monty and Gengis as well to at least preemptively apease them a bit.
     
  4. Whosit

    Whosit Entropic Knight

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    OK, I think I have the plan. Golden Age, give in to Demands. If either of the crazies goes into War-Mode, gifting them a tech buys us 10 turns, right? I'll play in an hour or so, me thinks.
     
  5. Pindrus

    Pindrus Warlord

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    Pretty sure gifting a tech does NOT buy you 10 turns of peace. You could try asking for 40-60 gold or so, however.
     
  6. Whosit

    Whosit Entropic Knight

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    I'm currently playing, just a question for anyone who might be watching: I can whip the National Epic in Tonsberg for 7 population (out of 14). The NE is 50 turns away, otherwise. I'm not gonna touch it unless someone things it's smart, though I would do it if left up to me, personally.
     
  7. nocho

    nocho Deity

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    I never whipped anything for 7 pop I think... I think you might as well whip the NE now, Tonsberg should grow back to size rather quick. I think you can even give it a 5th sea food tile by assigning the one that the city to its west has as well, for supergrowth. Work 5 seafood and assign two scientists to start with (the whole point of the NE), I'd say. It won't be a game breaker probably anyway.
     
  8. Sengir

    Sengir Deity

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    I'd whip it (that was my intention when I started it). Have a rather heavy concussion though so you might want to take my words with a grain of salt. Agree with Loki on straight beeline to MM and doing everything possible (GA) to speed it up. (Also, run an engineer in Tonsberg asap).
     
  9. Whosit

    Whosit Entropic Knight

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    OK, let's get down to Tack's brass.

    Inherited Turn: Turn 320, 1500 AD

    First thing I note is that Khan, Qin, and Monty are all in WHEOOHRN mode at the moment. Qin is our friend, and the psychos both hate Hammy, so we might be safe. Doesn't look like I can start any wars with the resources at our disposal.

    There's a lot more cities than when I last played! Lindholm looks nice, it might be that extra production city I was hoping for: Two fish, three sugar (one under the city, oh well), four grassy hills (though plains hills mighta been nicer considering the rest of the food). We have 6 workers total; I'll see if I can afford to send another down there.

    I'm going to try to grab us some more land this set, in addition to the other goals we have set, including that spit of an island just west of our territory because it has an oil source at sea. I don't think we have any sources of oil right now. The only other open one I see is near that cluster of Barbarian cities. If I can put out some troops, I'll see about taking them. The cities seem to be in decent spots, though that uranium is out of reach for the moment, it seems.

    It hasn't really been discussed . . . but I think that I'm going to trade Physics around. Justinian almost has it, but I can scoop up some gold and Constitution in the process. Maybe I'll wait next turn to see if the AI has more gold. Hopefully not less.

    Cities look good as far as I can tell. A lot of newer ones that'll need whipping, etc. I guess I'll make sure to put Customs Houses in all towns that are getting foreign trade routes.

    A long way to go on the National Epic, heh.

    OK, I see a Galleon with a couple workers in it. One more'll drop off at Lindholm, the other to Vasteras, with a guard from Kaupang picked up on the way. I don't know why the boat has Drill II. Was it a galley at first? All future transports should get Flanking and Navigation II.

    OK, heading to the next turn. Will check the trades then.

    Turn 321, 1505 AD

    Nidaros: Customs House < Courthouse (3 turns). It may be our capital, but its maintenance is 7 gold. I plan to put in a Drydock next.

    Birka: Harbor < Customs House (134 turns) Hoo-boy.

    Lindholm: Workboat < Work Boat (19 turns). Still more fish to net.

    Roskilde finishes a work boat and starts a Galleon. Doesn't have a drydock, but that would be a 30 turn diversion, so no bother.

    7 turns for Roskilde's work boat to get south.

    Joao has Biology up for trade, but we can't get it. Oh, and Asoka went Free Religion and Free Market. We may get Asoka's vote, then, 'cuz weren't we worried about having religious differences before?

    Discover a barbarian town in the southernmost icy reaches.


    Oh, and I just realized that Great Scientist we were talking about was fortified in the Capital. Please don't do that, because unobservant people like me might not realize it right away. OK, so time for that Golden Age and some civic change.




    At 70% science, we go from -6 gpt to +36 gpt, and Electricity goes from 16 turns to 13 turns. Not bad. Kicking up the slider puts us at -50 gpt and only cuts 1 turn off of our research. Maybe not, then.

    So, even if I sell a tech to everyone, all that money would just barely let us run at -50 deficit, so no real point to that. But I COULD use the money for upgrades and such.

    One Free Market, coming up. +46 gpt. 70% Now cuts research to 11 turns. Might be worth it. Could be possible to eek out Electricity by the end of the Golden Age. Trading Physics to everyone who lacks it, and Philosophy to Monty. OK, maybe this was :smoke: now that I think about it. Still gotta learn my way around trade relations. At least I know enough to avoid Corporation. But I think we have enough cash to burn through Electricity a bit more quickly.

    End turn.

    Turn 322, 1510 AD

    Uppsala: Harbor < Customs House (24 turns)

    Oslo: Berserker < Forge (14 turns). 13 base production means an extra 3 hammers. And it's one of the closest things we have to a production town.

    I won't sell Representation around, might as well hope the AIs spend a few more turns chasing it. Things look good, otherwise. Not a lot to do since most of our towns must spend ages to build anything.

    Turn 323, 1515 AD

    Nidaros: Courthouse < Drydock (2 turns)

    Justin is working on Military Science, so it looks like we're still a step ahead with Electricity. Awesome.

    Turn 324, 1520 AD

    2-pop whip Harbor in Bjorgvin.

    Hey! I can actually whip the National Epic in a couple turns . . . . for 7 population . . . . umm . . . maybe not. Maybe after 5 turns, when we get the next great person, whatever it'll be.

    Smack a 1-pop granary into Vasteras.

    Turn 325, 1525 AD

    Nidaros: Drydock < Galleon (1 turn). Just feel that we need some more of these.

    Bjorgvi: Harbor < Customs House (121 turns).

    Hammy just got Democracy, so I give him Physics, get Democracy, World Map, and 60 gold. I do this mainly so that we can switch to Emancipation in case we need to. *shrugs*


    Khan has replaceable parts, but won't trade it.

    Turn 326, 1530 AD

    Nidaros: Galleon < Settler (2 turns). I want that oil island, just in case. I know we're not expecting the game to go on much longer, but doesn't hurt to be careful, me thinks.

    Asoka has and will trade Replaceable parts, so I give him Constitution. Oh. Or not. Steel, then. OK, he's not pleased anymore. Huh, Monty is his worst enemy? When did that happen? Oh well. Gonna have to figure out a way to get him to like us more than Justin, now.


    Justin has been busy settling near our southern towns and the Barbarian towns.

    Oh, so the next GP is coming out of the Capital, not Tonsberg. Hmmm . . . . So, kill 7 pop . . . . or wait 50 turns for the National Epic. Actually, I won't touch this my set.

    Whip harbor in Sigtuna . . . no, I wait. Overflow listed as only 2. Does that go up? I'll wait a turn.

    Wait, Justin put that town ON the Uranium . . . it has no religion, but borders popped already. It's cutting into our town. We'll need a theatre ASAP.


    Turn 327, 1535 AD

    5 Turns to Electricity, 4 turns of Golden Age left. Can't afford to turn up the slider any further. Hrm.

    Pretty quiet, otherwise. We've lost EPs against Justin. Gonna put a Jail and Security Bureau in the Capital to boost our output.

    Turn 328, 1540 AD

    Nidaros: Settler < Jail (2 turns)

    Ribe: Trading Post < Customs House (30 turns)

    Lund: Granary < Theatre (10 turns). No culture, otherwise.

    Yawn.

    Turn 329, 1545 AD

    I am proud to report that Nidaros has produced . . . . a Great Engineer! I put him to sleep and post a sign. It is for the United Nations, yes?


    Turn 330, 1550 AD

    Nidaros: Jail < Security Bureau (4 turns). Mmm, EPs.

    Lindholm: Work boat < Courthouse (30 turns).

    This work boat sails west to Aarhus.

    Mongols suffer a slave revolt somewhere, and our put-upon town of Kaupang gets Confucianism.

    Found a new town with a complex name. Oh, that does murder to our finances. I forgot how bad each new town was at this point in the game. -71 gpt.


    I play with the EP weights, taking it off of Asoka and dialing it down on Qin since we're over what we need to see their research. Dial back on Monty and Khan because we don't have enough and they're behind, anyway. Should see Justy's research in another turn or two, now.

    I go ahead and whip the harbor in Sigtuna.

    Turn 331, 1555 AD

    -104 gpt?!? Oh, yeah, Golden Age ended. I'll mess with that in a sec.

    Sigtuna: Harbor < Customs House (260 turns)

    Cut research to 60%. We're positive at +63, and still get Electricity in 1 turn. Eh, I bump it to 70% at -21 gpt for overflow and more research. It's a 90 beaker difference. We can sustain this for a little bit.

    Ah, better. Justin is going for Steam Power. We'll certainly get to Mass Media with breathing room to spare. Heck, we may still be able to diverge to Communism, though that Great Spy may not do us much good now. Naw, onward to the United Nations!

    Oh, Asoka likes us again. Favored Civic went up a notch, and the Open Borders bonus kicked in. He likes us more than Justin again.

    Turn 332, 1560

    Electricity is in, Radio in 19 turns.


    Y'know, that's a nice quote by Edison and all, but everyone knows that it was Nikola Tesla who revolutionized the commercialization of electricity.

    Odense: Berserker < Berkserker (18 turns). I'd rather something else, but it all takes too long.

    Qin adopts Theocracy. Ho ho, someone gonna get it soon?


    Anyway, I commence naval operations agains the barbarians. Namely, punk a worker with a Berserker off of a Galleon. D'oh. Two more were in the field. Oh well. The town has 4 longbowmen, but our guy is on a hill, so we should be OK.


    Turn 333, 1565 AD

    *Raises eyebrow* OK, the Barbs didn't retreat their workers? I'm not for needlessly sacrificing troops, but I can't pass up 2 potentially free workers, so I'll gamble and send our Berserker after them.

    Radio is in 17 turns, so something must have cut a turn off.

    I sell Khan Liberalism for 140 gold to fund deficit research a bit longer, and it also bumps us up to Cautious, not that it'll do us any good. Who knows, maybe he'll vote for us? No, never mind, he likes Justin WAY better.


    Now, let's see the fate of our worker-punking Berserker.

    Turn 334, 1570 AD

    The Barbarians don't attack. Lucky day. They did upgrade an archer to a longbowman, though. Didn't know they could do that.

    Galleon only has room for the three (free) workers, so it sails off to drop them off. Move "Recruiter" onto a hill.

    Justin is in WHEOOHRN mode, now. Something is going to hit the fan eventually.

    Turn 335, 1575 AD

    Aww, Recruiter bit the dust. At least he took a longbowman down with him. I wonder why the Barbs didn't attack when they could have gotten the workers? Hmm.

    Joao wants our Electricity for Biology and 50 gold. Somewhat tempting, but I hold off to see what else we can get.

    Nidaros: Security Bureau < Berserker (2 turns). Normally, this is when I'd build Broadway and all that, but, uh, not this time. Let's get those Barb Towns!

    Vasteras: Work Boat < Work Boat (11 turns).

    *sighs* Well, some decent trades. I can get some cash, as well as Biology, Military Science . . . Don't want to pick up Corporation, even though I could. Hmm. Hammy gets Rifling in 2 turns. I'll delay trades and see if he'll give it to us. That would be nice.

    Two mines finish at Lindholm, so switch tiles to mines. Now is pulling in 10 hammers per turn. Whee. Still at +8 food and no Trading Post yet. Heh. One mine and one more sugar plantation to go. This is gonna be a monster town, even with 4 mines instead of windmills.

    Urgh, just noticed that Nidaros became unhappy. Switch the Berserker to a Colosseum. Might need a temple after that, because Emancipation unhappiness is rising.

    Our relative power is steadily shrinking. Mrrr.

    Turn 336, 1580 AD

    OK, I know we said we'd give in to demands, but Monty wants us to break our deals with Justin. We're getting 15 gpt from him and then he'd hate us. Monty hates us anyway, soo . . . . Nope.

    Oslo: Forge < Berserker (8 turns)

    Play with EP weights a little bit again. Next person might want to go over that.

    Do some whipping. Tonsberg is at a 6-pop whip for NE and is at Happy Cap. Might want to whip it as the anger grows.

    Turn 337, 1585 AD

    Nidaros: Colosseum < Toaist Temple. I whip it for 3 'cuz we're at 2 angry citizens. That evens us out for a bit, but will probably hurt long-run. Not sure if we want to switch to Emancipation, but we might have to if things keep hurting. Maybe just build more garrison?

    Jelling: Harbor < Customs House (264 turns)

    Lodose: Harbor < Courthouse (165 turns)

    Vasteras: Work boat < Courthouse (44 turns)

    Justinian Adopts Vassalage and Universal Sufferage. Interesting mix of civics ya' got there, pal.

    Okay, bestest-buddy Hammy, what'll ya' give us? Electricity for Rifling and 60 gold? Not bad, right guys? We don't want Corporation so I skip it.
    Get Biology and some money from Joao. Can't squeeze in Military Science, I'm afraid, but it's less important. Hmm. Joao has medicine already. We should keep an eye on him.



    Could scoop up some more change, but I decline to. AIs might end up trading electricity around, but we're well on our way to Mass Media, so it seems alright.

    But now we can build Riflemen!! Whee!

    Actually, I beg some of that gold off of our friends. More deficit spending money!

    Turn 338, 1590 AD

    Monty is heading towards Printing Press in 5 or so turns. We can sell it to him in a few turns, then.

    Nidaros: Temple < Rifleman (2 turns).

    Not much else happening. Tonsberg is unhappy with 2 angry people, so I whip it for 6. Steal Bjorgvin's seafood, too. Better keep an eye on that as demographics up there change.

    Hammy has started Communism (14 turns) and Qin is 16 turns from Electricity. I think he got a discount 'cuz we traded around.

    Turn 339, 1595 AD

    Roskilde: Galleon < Harbor (40 turns)

    Tonsberg: National Epic < Christian Temple (33 turns). It's gonna run into happiness issues, and at least a temple opens a Priest slot. It's running 4 specialists right now, losing 1 food to unhealthiness, and still has a +12 food surpless. Might not need to keep its neighbor's fish after all.

    Could make some trades, but they'll probably keep 'till next turn when I hand it off.

    340, 1600 AD

    Khan wants Open Borders. I pass, because I figure we haven't signed OB due to worst enemy issues.

    Nidaros: Rifleman < Rifleman (4 turns)

    Lund: Theatre < Trading Post (44 turns)

    Joao adopts Emancipation and Environmentalism. Meh.

    Hah. I think that Rifleman alone was enough to bump up our relative power to a few of the AI.

    OK, that's it. Played a full 20 turns. Whoo. Guess it wasn't too bad since a lot of it was just waiting, mostly. Though I tried to keep an eye on our towns and possible trades to avoid just mashing enter.

    Got 4 workers at each of our southern islands. Make sure to connect the new gold and sugar sources so that we can trade them. Should be decent towns once they get up and running. We had 6 workers when I started, so I expanded our workforce by 50%. Whoo-hoo.

    I have pictures, but I haven't eaten yet and it's past lunchtime, so I'll probably post them later to spice up this block of text.
     

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  10. nocho

    nocho Deity

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    Sorry about fortifying the GS, must have done it by accident.

    Great news about the GE!

    Personally I think I would have waited trading around electricity, as what we got for it, although nice, was not really needed yet.

    And Just in wheoohrn! Would he be eyeing us, weak as we are? :eek: Good part about thatmaybe is that if we hold on, maybe we can then bribe the rest of the world against him, assuring UN victory for sure.

    Justy's standing in the world seems to have gone down by the way anyway.
     
  11. Loki Strikes

    Loki Strikes Prince

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    GE is spectacular, and Just gearing for war is good news, we can get people involved against him as AI's are more likely to dogpile than start something.

    Before any trade check worst enemies, we do not want people pissed at us unnecessarily, things are looking good though
     
  12. nocho

    nocho Deity

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    nocho
    Whosit - just played
    Dave - permaskip
    Loki - up
    Sengir

    So Loki or Sengir should win us the UN vote... :)
     
  13. Loki Strikes

    Loki Strikes Prince

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    ot it will try and find time to play

    Probably cannot play until Tuesday so Sengir if you want to play it any time before Tuesday.
     
  14. Dave Hartwick

    Dave Hartwick Prince

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    Nice pull on the engineer.
     
  15. Sengir

    Sengir Deity

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    Won't be able to play before Tuesday (should be able from Thursday on at the latest), so take your time Loki.
     
  16. Loki Strikes

    Loki Strikes Prince

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    Death in the family, had to stay an extra day at the funeral, can't touch it Thursday or Friday, playing graduation / hanging out Fri, take it Sengir :p
     
  17. nocho

    nocho Deity

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    Sorry to hear that, Loki. :(

    So Sengir has the next honours of getting us closer to removng Ban Ki Moon out of office. :)
     
  18. Sengir

    Sengir Deity

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    Ok, will take it for tonight or tomorrow
     
  19. Sengir

    Sengir Deity

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    Turn 340:
    Go through cities, not much to do.

    11 turns on Radio, MM will take about 14. After that UN (with GE) and waiting for votes. About 40 turns if all goes well I suppose. Will play about 20.

    Need a bit more cash for research though. I'm also not going to whip much to get the population up. (we are 5th atm)

    Turn 341:
    Qin wants to trade Corporation for Steal: No

    Aarhus: Granary > Trading Post

    Turn 342:
    Asoka wants to trade WM. Sure.

    Turn 343:
    Trade one of our 10 fish to Asoka for the resource +diplo
    Hook up an extra gold, now I have to decide whom to trade it with.
    In the end I pick Genghis, as he has the most gold available isn't anybody's WE and we have resource-trades going on with everybody we want to.
    Pick up OB with him as well.

    Turn 344:
    Nidaros: Rifle > Rifle
    Oslo: Berserker > Berserker

    Turn 345:
    zzz

    Turn 346:
    Tonsberg: Temple > Theatre

    Turn 347:
    Nidaros: Rifle > Rifle

    Turn 348:
    Kaupung: Theatre > Trading post

    Turn 349:
    Bjorgvin: Custom House > Theatre
    Lindholm: Courthouse > Trading Post

    Turn 350:
    We enter the modern era as we finish Radio (yes, it was one turn quicker, mostly because of the OB with Genghis). MM in 10.

    Nidaros: Rifle > Rifle
    Odense: Berserker > Berserker
    Delete a couple of worker as we are running out of jobs and money.

    Turn 351:


    Turn 352:
    Uppsala: Customs House > Berserker
    Oslo: Berserker > Berserker

    Sell Genghis his last turn on constitution for 80g to keep up our research rate. Will need a bit more to finish MM on this rate though.

    Turn 353:
    Nidaros: Rifle > Crossbow (need a quicker build to keep up with emancipation unhappies)
    Lindholm: Trading Post > Crossbow
    Sell Qin sugar for 4gpt

    Turn 354:
    Nidaros: Crossbow > Crossbow
    Ribe: Customs House > Berserker

    Turn 355:
    zzz

    Turn 356:
    Qin comes begging for democracy. Sure buddy, there you go.

    Lindholm: Crossbow > Crossbow
    Lund: Trading Post > Courthouse


    Great Artist born in Tonsberg. Not sure what to do with him, so send him to Nidaros.






    At least that was the plan untill I noticed this:


    So he shaves 2 turns from MM :D
    So I micromanage the hell out of our cities and get Mass Media next turn

    Turn 357:
    Here we go:


    Pick Refrigeration for now.
    Kaupung: Trading Post > Courthouse

    Switch Nidaros to UN and burn the GE:

    Which leaves exactly three turns on the UN.

    I stop here and leave the finish (hopefully) to the next player.

    At this point we are 3th in population (18%) Just is first at 24%

    Here is the glance screen:
    Spoiler :

    with a little luck we can get Asoka to vote for us as well.
    However, I don't think it is enough at this point. It might be a good idea to gift/sell bio to Qin and maybe Asoka to grow their population a bit and pray that they won't trade it to Just. Also, set our cities to max growth (run the culture slider for the happies or switch out of slavery to Emancipation).
     

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  20. Sengir

    Sengir Deity

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    I've been thinking about it a bit more and I think we are quite a lot of votes short, as Just is going to vote for himself, Genghis is going to abstain (at least for the victory vote, I think he will vote for Just in the regular vote), Monty is going to abstain for sure. Those three together are probably enough to block the vote.

    So, my plan would be to gear up for a war against Monty and get Genghis (and maybe everyone else except Just as well) to join us. This will probably make Monty the WE of Genghis, hopefully dropping the WE-penalty a bit. Combined with the mutual struggle bonus we might get him up to a vote as well. (It might not even be necessary to fight ourselves, though loading everything on galleons, and take one (big) city should be doable I think).
     

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