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TH3 archipelago high seas tropics immortal

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by Dave Hartwick, Apr 18, 2009.

  1. nocho

    nocho Deity

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    :goodjob: practically securing the UN.

    It will be interesting to see how the vote works out, you may be right that it won't be enough yet.

    I'm a bit puzzled though about the populations. According to demographics Just has 25.9 million pop to our mere 11.8 million, but in percentages according to the victory screen it's only 24.0% vs us 18.9%. I hope it's these percentages that count with the vote, not the absolute pop count...

    For the UN we need 478 from 772 votes which is nearly 62%. Joao is probably number 2 in pop, let's suppose he's on some 20%. Then Hammu, Qin and Asoka together should have 23% to make us win. Probably won't make it I guess, because Gengis and Monty conversely will have more than 14% and won't vote for us (thus with more than 38% not voting for us).

    So we'll have to grow. I'd say let's fire all specialists and probably farm all those cottages near Nidaros and Ribe. Hate to destroy all of them, but well, the only thing needed is pop, pop and more pop and research can be stalled, basically. Unless we now want to have a feeble attempt at space. And we may want to take out those barb cities and see if we can settle a bit more, like 3N of Ribe east of Kaupang and there are some unsettled tiny islands with fish to Portugal's east.

    I'm not sure about trading biology, I think it's too likely Just will then get it trade. Once he does get it however, we might as well gift it to our friends Qin and Asoka.

    EDIT: Crossposted with Sengir... I like the war plan with Gengis or Monty, that must be the way to go. Probably with Monty as Asoka is of course a big friend of Gengis. If that won't suffice, we can always go after Gengis still.
     
  2. Sengir

    Sengir Deity

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    Loki, you around?

    Otherwise, can you pick it up nocho?

    For the record: I'll be away from May 29th untill June 1st.
     
  3. nocho

    nocho Deity

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    If there's no sign of Loki before that, I could play this on Wednesday evening.

    Oh no, wait, it's champions league finals with Barça then! :D So can't take it before Thursday. Well, we don't seem to be in a hurry lately anyway.
     
  4. Loki Strikes

    Loki Strikes Prince

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    Loki who? will play today or Tuesday
     
  5. Pindrus

    Pindrus Warlord

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    The % you see in the demographics screen should correlate to UN votes, I believe. Votes for each player are based on their respective city size totals (i.e. add all your city sizes together), which is also how I believe the domination victory condition works. The "real" population (11.8 million or whatever) is more a flavor statistic. City "real" population is not linearly proportionate to their size number. For example (just making up numbers), "real" population may correlate to city number like so:

    1 - 1,000 pop (x1,000)
    2 - 3,000 pop (x1,500)
    3 - 9,000 pop (x3,000)
    ...
    20 - 2,000,000 pop (x100,000)

    This more accurately reflects the growth of cities over the course of 6,000 years of human history--the metropolises of the 21st century are much more than 20 times the population of villages in 4000 BC, but game mechanics work out better on a different scale.
     
  6. nocho

    nocho Deity

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    That makes sense! Justinian has quite some enormously sized cities so it all adds up indeed. I'll be less scared from the demographics screen from now on if indeed 2 size-10 cities have significantly less population count than 1 size-20 city...
     
  7. Loki Strikes

    Loki Strikes Prince

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    Played a set for Boff - 06 today, got home late I could play now, but I am sloppy tired, if it is okay with everyone I will play tomorrow when I will be sharper.
     
  8. Whosit

    Whosit Entropic Knight

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    Sharp is always better. That's why I prefer sharp cheddar over mild cheddar. Mmm, cheese.
     
  9. Loki Strikes

    Loki Strikes Prince

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    Played a set, relatively unexciting, victory is in sights however

    As expected we are short of a diplo victory




    I trade a little bit and then set tech towards AL...



    Grab communism in trade decide to build Kremlin so we can whip out an infantry army... After AL we should grab PS to do Kremlin + PS whipping shenanigans.

    We have been underwhipping, I know I encouraged population growth, but not at the expense of courthouses + granaries etc. I captured 3 barb cities in my segment there are two more to capture...thats free pop people.



    And lost third picture

    Building galleons in a few places we really do not need combustion, we need to land an invasion force, cripple + vassal our targets and then be done with it... Genghis or Monty IDC, Infantry will be fine

    Next player, build an army, PS probably won't be necessary, I want to see our Victory Armada (TM) :lol: Would it really be Team Hartwick without one?

    Stopped here


    2 turns to AL... Gp due soon, have we had a golden age yet? it would really help... would jump into State property and start workshopping stuff...


    Sorry for late report and incoherence due to the late hour, played set earlier but had to help my sister cook something for school (she is hopeless), then went out to dinner with my dad and then I played some bass...

    Hey I remembered the save though :goodjob:
     

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  10. Sengir

    Sengir Deity

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    Nice set Loki. What was the tally at the end of the set? I think we are better of going after Monty, as otherwise we would have to fight a bit more because Asoka will drop to pleased/under the vote threshold.
    Will look at the save later.
     
  11. nocho

    nocho Deity

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    Good going! I think I'm up next so got it. Won't play today as I'm a bit blurred by Barça's success and the subsequent festivities afterwards... So expect it for friday or saturday.

    Haven't looked at the save yet, but the general plan seems simple enough. Conquer Monty and win the UN vote. Monty's votes seem to be enough. Question: does a vassal always vote for you or do we better conquer him completely?
    Guess we'll just have to pump units apart from basic infrastructure in the newest cities.

    What civics are we in and which do we want to adopt exactly? State Property, Nationhood, Police State?

    I think we fired a GA with the free scientist from Physics, so next great person can't do that.
     
  12. Sengir

    Sengir Deity

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    Vassals always vote for the master unless they are the other contender.

    I don't think PS is necessary, but haven't looked at the save so can't tell for sure.

    Also, congratulations on the game yesterday. Best team won. :goodjob:
     
  13. nocho

    nocho Deity

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    Thanks! First ten minutes were a bit scary but after Eto'o'o'o's little brilliancy Barça was indeed better throughout. :D

    Will look at the save this evening and post some thoughts.
     
  14. Whosit

    Whosit Entropic Knight

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    Sounds like a plan. As much as I'd like to see Justinian take the fall, I understand that going after Montezuma is the better strategy. Oh well.
     
  15. nocho

    nocho Deity

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    Had a look at the save.

    Techs: We have two turns left to AL, I guess Artillery next. There seem to be some beakers invested in it already. I guess I'll stop after that but what would be next target? We may be able to trade for railroad and then combustion, industrialism? We only have offshore oil as far as I can see though, so we'd also need plastics for tanks. Or Fascism? With that we may have an outside chance if we switch to PS to get Gengis to vote for us (PS being his fav civic, at the expense of Joao's +4 for HR however, which would bring Joao on +8).

    Civics: state property looks very strong. Nationhood as well, because if we only rely on our production we'll never get a decent army. However, nationhood has the downside that we lose fav civic bonus with Qin and Hammu in bureaucracy. They'd both go down to +10 from +16 and +15 respectively. Probably still enough for them to vote us and need be we can always switch back to bureaucracy as soon as Monty has been beaten down.
    The civic change to SP+nat is 3 turns of anarchy, I guess we'll have to bite that bullet. We'd need 2 great people for another golden age and I think we cannot wait for a 2nd one to arrive.

    Speaking of the next great person, what to do? It can be any GP possible. GM trade mission, GSpy infiltrate and steal something (?), GS academy in Nidaros finally or bulb, GA would suck (reserve for GA many turns later probably), GPr settle or reserve, GE try and rush something (SoL maybe?).

    Workshopping which Loki mentioned. Ok, but where? Everywhere?? I guess we should leave some commerce and don't want to bulldozer fully grown towns without team consensus. Maybe leave the towns on our little main island and near Uppsala in place and workshop the rest?

    I see the culture slider is at 10%. I guess that's in order for the new towns to pop their borders after which it can be set back to 0, right?

    Builds will be some infratructure and an army. Guess we'll have to whip and draft rather often. Do we start on cannons already or better wait for artillery to arrive? May not have a lot of gold for upgrades.

    And get some barbarian cities.

    Well, many little questions that I could maybe answer myself but let's discuss it a bit, it's a SG after all. :) Therefore, comments will be appreciated!
     
  16. Loki Strikes

    Loki Strikes Prince

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    Culture slider was for Kremlin, Nidaros was unhappy, with 10% culture I shaved a turn. Should be fixed you are right.

    Yes bulldoze the towns and everything (except farms) for workshops (well farms too, but make sure we feed our workshops), we can get to artillery fine... we don't need anything else.

    I would stay in Bureau as we still need the votes from Hammy and QSH, we will get demerits for Monty as our vassal.

    Whip + SP workshops seems to be the most efficient.

    PS is not necessary, and in retrospect I agree Artillery-Facism, but we frankly don't need more research, mines + workshops are needed.
     
  17. nocho

    nocho Deity

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    Start off reviewing all cities. All is well of course but decide to get some more workers for immediate workshopping activities. At the end of my set I actually have more than doubled the workforce which was a bit overdone, but at least we have many workshops now... :) Also whip the university in Haithabu. I queued it in my previous set and it still had 120 turns left :lol:.

    T378 Qin builds the statue of liberty and broadway on the same turn.

    T379 We capture a barbarian town


    Assembly Line comes in and switch to Artillery. We also revolt to State Property for 2 turns of anarchy.


    T381 We come out of revolt and gpt shoots up a lot, something like 100 at same slider settings, so revolt was definitely worth it. However, now some slaves revolt. :rolleyes:


    T385 We try again to sneak victory away but with expected results.


    A great merchant is born in Tonsberg. I decide to ship him off for a trade mission to Babylon. There's the ToA and read somewhere that is the optimum place for trade missions. Don't know if that's true but will sail past Babylon to see what it would yield.


    See that Hammu has some spare change so make a trade.


    T386 Jelling is a great place. The alternative was a free great artist for quite some cash. Rather have cash.


    T387 We capture Parthian. Note that the upgraded rifleman is a level 4 unit, so we unlocked Heroic Epic. Mayor weed of the set was that I didn't notice until after it. I suggest next player build the HE asap.


    T390 Great Merchant arrives at Babylon. 4050 gold doesn't sound bad at all, so take it.


    T391 Artillery is in. Switch to fascism and decide to play on till there, now we have cash for some deficit research. Hope to get the free great general.

    T392 We sack another barbarian dwelling. Send two infantry there who met 4 barbarian riflemen :eek:. I don't know if I ever saw barbarian riflemen before! It takes some turns and 1 infantry but we have a new little island at our disposal.


    T393 Knowing that we won't win the UN vote I do the single currency vote that is applauded by everyone.


    I sent a galleon to Monty's land, just to see what he has for defences. With artillery and infantry shouldn't be too problematic.
    Spoiler :




    T396 Fascism is in and we get the great general. Stopped here. Selected refrigeration just to select something. And for the +1 water movement.

    As said, I think we should build the heroic epic in the capital, will take 4 turns, but the ROI will come soon enough. The GG could be settled or we might want a military academy if we trade for military science. Maybe just settle.

    We have a lot of workshops now so production has gotten up. Whipped rather heavily, the Kremlin is quite amazing. Even our icy sea towns with 1 hammer production can whip units at a reasonable rate. Finished some infrastructure but we can now go in more or less military only mode. We crept a bit up in power but now with many workshops up I think after the next set our army should really start to look impressive. Maybe we can go on the offensive the set afterwards. Right now we're at this.


    I didn't trade any techs. The current situation looks like this.



    And something interesting happened on the diplo front, we lost the favcivic bonus with Joao as he moved out of it, I guess. Note that most AIs are in emancipation and we start to feel the unhappiness. That's why I left the culture slider at 10%, we needed it. I think by the way there are some happy resources available on the international market, we may have to look at renegotianting some stuff (resource deals instead of gpt). Anyway, this is the favcivic sreen and the current relations. Somehow Gengis is pleased with Monty at -1. :crazyeye:



    I think Whosit is up next.
     

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  18. Whosit

    Whosit Entropic Knight

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    Well, some very nice sets. It's been bumming me that we haven't won the U.N. Victory yet. The Civ III version was certainly easier!

    Well, the only time I could take it in the next couple days is today, and we probably want some time to hash out a plan? I'm not feeling great, either, I think I got a little too much sun this morning. Can't get it tomorrow or Sunday, so it may be best to skip me if someone else can get it before Monday.

    I'll have to look at the save to decide what to do with the Great General. It sounds like most of our towns can just whip out soldiers, like nocho said. I'd wait for an academy if we had a town besides our capital that had decent base production. Otherwise, settle it (in our capital, I'm assuming).

    When we strike at Monty, do we want to get anyone else into the war, like Khan, for the Diplo bonus? I'm guessing that we're gonna want to build galleons, infantry, and artillery non-stop for awhile.
     
  19. Loki Strikes

    Loki Strikes Prince

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    Check to see if we can bribe Joao into HR... if not, espionage...

    We need more units... Barracks + Infantry/Artillery only... I want my armada damn it :lol:
     
  20. Whosit

    Whosit Entropic Knight

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    I may be able to play a short set this afternoon, but I don't post anything, you won't hear from me until Monday.
     

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