That debate was awful

[amadeus]

What exactly were they debating? How much they were going to outspend each other? How much they were going to trample on the Constitution?

 

[JollyRoger]

What exactly were they debating? How much they were going to outspend each other? How much they were going to trample on the Constitution?

Nope. The moderators never really asked any questions regarding fiscal policy or governance issues.

 

[Aegis]

Fairfax County, Virginia is the richest in the US and it has just hit $100,000 median income.

Guess that makes Fairfax County impoverished then, since it takes $200k to survive the cost of living and be considered middle class.

Median income does not equal middle class.

I live in Fairfax County. A $200,000.00 income is not middle class here.

If Middle Class is $200K and 50% the people in the county make less than $100K, are they poor? No, they are not. I make just under $50k and I'm middle class.

 

[ShannonCT]

I live in the richest county in Texas. Median household income is around $70k. Point to a county where median household income comes close to $200k.

One doesn't exist. But what's your point? Are you saying that anyone making above median income is upper class?

Guess that makes Fairfax County impoverished then, since it takes $200k to survive the cost of living and be considered middle class.

Strawmanbearpig. People who are just surviving the cost of living aren't middle class. They're working/lower class. To be middle class, one has to have a degree of financial security and a reasonably comfortable lifestyle. And that's what 200K a year will buy you in the area where I live. It will buy you a respectable 4-bedroom house in the suburbs for your family, vehicles for you and your spouse (better than a basic model), a yearly 2-week vacation, and a good education for your kids. What it won't buy you is a 30-room mansion, a 60-foot yacht, a sports car collection, or weekly visits with Ashley Alexandra Dupré.

200K/year is not upper class where I live.

 

[Aegis]

One doesn't exist. But what's your point? Are you saying that anyone making above median income is upper class?



Strawmanbearpig. People who are just surviving the cost of living aren't middle class. They're working/lower class. To be middle class, one has to have a degree of financial security and a reasonably comfortable lifestyle. And that's what 200K a year will buy you in the area where I live. It will buy you a respectable 4-bedroom house in the suburbs for your family, vehicles for you and your spouse (better than a basic model), a yearly 2-week vacation, and a good education for your kids. What it won't buy you is a 30-room mansion, a 60-foot yacht, a sports car collection, or weekly visits with Ashley Alexandra Dupré.

200K/year is not upper class where I live.

There is a difference between being super rich and upper class.

 

[downtown]

^ You happen to live in one of the most expensive places in the entire United States

 

[Aegis]

^ You happen to live in one of the most expensive places in the entire United States

Yes, I know. The vast majority of the higher cost is in housing prices, which were heavily inflated by the housing boom earlier this decade. Everything else is pretty much the same. Gasoline tends to be a little more expensive here than in the countryside, but the same could be said of any urban area.

 

[downtown]

Yes, I know. The vast majority of the higher cost is in housing prices, which were heavily inflated by the housing boom earlier this decade. Everything else is pretty much the same. Gasoline tends to be a little more expensive here than in the countryside, but the same could be said of any urban area.

Oh sorry, that was actually meant for CT...although it does apply to you too!

 

[emzie]

Strawmanbearpig. People who are just surviving the cost of living aren't middle class. They're working/lower class. To be middle class, one has to have a degree of financial security and a reasonably comfortable lifestyle. And that's what 200K a year will buy you in the area where I live. It will buy you a respectable 4-bedroom house in the suburbs for your family, vehicles for you and your spouse (better than a basic model), a yearly 2-week vacation, and a good education for your kids. What it won't buy you is a 30-room mansion, a 60-foot yacht, a sports car collection, or weekly visits with Ashley Alexandra Dupré.

200K/year is not upper class where I live.

I would call 200k / family / year upper middle class.

 

[ShannonCT]

There is a difference between being super rich and upper class.

Apparently even the Democrats don't count people earning 200K or less as upper class.

200K a year in the Northeast or parts of the West Coast has to viewed differently than 200K a year in the middle of the country. It's not just housing that's cheaper in the middle. It's everything: gasoline, insurance, education, food, utilities, state and local taxes. Just do a google search of "cost of living calculator" and try converting income in one city to income in another.

I would call 200k / family / year upper middle class.

Fair enough. But again, depends on where you live.

 

[downtown]

I would call 200k / family / year upper middle class.

I call that wealthy. Thats enough money here to denote being a part of an elite profession, get you into the absolute best neighborhoods, the best schools, etc. Where we live Augurey, 100K is uppermiddle

 

[Elrohir]

$200,000 per year is borderline upper middle class and upper class in a lot of areas. It's not really clear but because of the different standard of living costs and the lack of a real definition for the "middle class". (Or lower or upper classes, for that matter) It's so subjective, it really isn't worth arguing about, guys.

 

[Aegis]

200K a year in the Northeast or parts of the West Coast has to viewed differently than 200K a year in the middle of the country. It's not just housing that's cheaper in the middle. It's everything: gasoline, insurance, education, food, utilities, state and local taxes. Just do a google search of "cost of living calculator" and trying converting income in one city to income in another.

In my experience, I have lived in a rural area in Ohio where a lot of the taxes were actually higher than in Fairfax County. Gasoline, insurance and food were all about equal with Fairfax County. Taxes on food were actually higher in Ohio by about 2%. Utilities also cost a bit less. The big difference was that the housing was a helluva lot cheaper. A 4-BR 3-BA house that costs 400-800K in Fairfax County would only cost 100-200k in Ohio. Maybe there are higher taxes for those who make over 100K there, but I wouldn't know since I don't make that much.

I would agree that if your family's income is $200K that would put you at upper middle class, but if was just one person's income, or their spouse made another 50-200k that would put them into upper class, imo.

 

[emzie]

I call that wealthy. Thats enough money here to denote being a part of an elite profession, get you into the absolute best neighborhoods, the best schools, etc. Where we live Augurey, 100K is uppermiddle

First, I lived in Upper Arlington

Second, a couple, each making 50k / year is upper middle class?

 

[ShannonCT]

I would agree that if your family's income is $200K that would put you at upper middle class, but if was just one person's income, or their spouse made another 50-200k that would put them into upper class, imo.

I think the debate last night was refering to total family income. No doubt that a family of five living on 200K is a different story than a single person doing the same. And of course the tax code reflects this.

 

[JollyRoger]

I wonder what all those Pennsylvania hicks clinging to their guns and religion out of bitterness think when a media elite states that $200,000/yr is solidly middle class. Do they check his bowling score and breakfast beverage order to see if he really is elitist?

 

[Bamspeedy]

http://cgi.money.cnn.com/tools/costofliving/costofliving.html?step=form&x=28&y=21

I compared Stamford, Conneticut to Wausau, WI (later I checked Eau Claire and it was almost exactly the same as Wausau).

$200,000/year in Conneticut = $124,966 in rural Wisconsin ($150,000 if I selected the other Conneticut cities). I'd say that is at the very least upper middle, if not upper class. But yeah, the term 'middle class' is so broad of a term and there is no exact definition.

 

[JollyRoger]

As for the debate, I'm really disappointed they didn't ask the following:

Senator Obama interracial marriage and miscengenation were illegal when you were born so your parents were engaging in criminal activities for a number of years.

How can you prove that you respect the laws of this country when you were born into a family who could not comply with the laws of the United States?

 

[ShannonCT]

As for the debate, I'm really disappointed they didn't ask the following:

Senator Obama interracial marriage and miscengenation were illegal when you were born so your parents were engaging in criminal activities for a number of years.

How can you prove that you respect the laws of this country when you were born into a family who could not comply with the laws of the United States?

Do your research knucklehead. Anti-miscegenation laws never existed in Hawaii, where Obama was born. Go back to your bad orange juice "jokes".

 

[JollyRoger]

Do your research knucklehead. Anti-miscegenation laws never existed in Hawaii, where Obama was born. Go back to your bad orange juice "jokes".

You think the facts stand in the way of the knuckleheaded press? If Obama responded in regards to the legality, the obvious follow-up would be:

"In all due respect Senator, given that you were born in a state that was, at the time, out-of-touch with mainstream American values, why should middle America trust that you have overcome the disadvantage of such a start in life and that you won't try to force America to abide by beyond-the-left-coast cultural norms?"