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The 3 Little Tweaks I Would Make

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by homegrown, Jul 17, 2013.

  1. homegrown

    homegrown Missionary of Sorenism

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    Ive played several games on prince and emperor now and have three little pet peeves that if I had the skills, I would attempt to tweak with a mod. Here they are.

    1. Rivers count as a city connection. Two cities on the same river should automatically have a city connection just as if they had been connected by roads. It's thematically and historically accurate. Require Sailing if you want.

    2. Early Unit Maintenance. I think this is the biggest problem with lack of early gold. By the time you build a scout and a worker with your initial warrior, you are at your limit. You can't even afford 2 archers to protect your worker/tile improvements and your first trade route. I would have it scale down rapidly after 100 turns, but a couple additional unit support early would make a big difference.

    3. A carryover from G&K: freakin' mountains and observatories. Settling right next to the mountain is so often not the best tile to settle on, but if you want an obs later, you have to do it. I just never got why you couldn't put that obs on the mountain you can see from your loft in the city, still inside the 3-ring workable border. I have the G&K mod for this, but I'd like to see it become standard.
     
  2. Nickel_lion

    Nickel_lion Chieftain

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    What are waiting for? DO IT NOW!!! :)

    And the rivers as routes? Freaking GENIUS!!

    And, would you believe me if I tell you I've had THE SAME IMPRESSION about the f* observatories? Besides I always wanted to see even a miserable, tiny actual observatory on the mountain once you built it... :(
     
  3. ptoss1

    ptoss1 Chieftain

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    You call those little tweaks?
     
  4. Calouste

    Calouste Chieftain

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    Yeah, not a fan of the Observatory either the way it is designed now. Too large an effect for something that's too random to get. I'd prefer if they allow it at a mountain within a 2 tile radius (same as Machu Picchu and Neuschwanstein) but cut down the benefit to 25% or so.
     
  5. Falconiano

    Falconiano Chieftain

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    We really just need the gold tiles back. At least on rivers/coast.
     
  6. Viregel

    Viregel , The Rt. Hon.

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    I think that someone made a mod for the Observatry tweak, but I agree with you on all of those.
     
  7. pilot00

    pilot00 Chieftain

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    To be honest, seeing as the economy of the game progresses, we need a mechanic to help those civs that are isolated. Removing gold from tiles was a wise choice, however silly it might sound. When you hit the late medieval and having a couple trading partners gold becomes a non issue.
     
  8. Lord Byte

    Lord Byte Chieftain

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    A couple more:

    - Jump to nearby idle units first instead of freaking all over the map to as many disparate units as possible... (seriously, how does this NOT annoy).

    - Allow Castles or Great Generals fortresses (or heck Great Admirals, giving them some use) to create a tile a ship can move onto land. This could allow for channels or for shortcuts worth fighting for (so your ships don't have to pass hostile nations, or just a huge shortcut, if not to allow landlocked cities at inner seas access to the outside world. I loved that feature in CIV.

    - Allow us to request help (and not demand), so friendly AIs might give us some resources or cash if we're running (far) behind, just as they do to us all the time.

    - Allow us to convert to another religion if we take its Holy city (with whatever disparate bonuses the AI managed to cobble together). (Even if just once, or with a special wonder or whatever).

    Just top of my head :)
     
  9. ahawk

    ahawk Chieftain

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    My thoughts;

    1) Rivers are still important enough that I don't think they need anything else quite yet. They increase the profit of any trade-routes to cities built on them, they provide irrigation bonuses, they unlock watermill, garden, and hydro-electric dams, they allow farms on hill/river tiles, and they serve as a defensive line.

    2) I partially agree. I don't know if it's unit maintenance so much as building maintenance for most people, but early game GPT is now ridiculous if you don't have two trade-routes up quickly. Which is not fun because:
    * Trade should be semi-optional, with advantages and disadvantages, rather than almost mandatory. There should still be the ability to prioritize something else (faith, culture, war) in the opening 100 turns without completely bankrupting you.
    * It takes too long to build trade units. Often, it takes just as long as building those crucial early settlers.
    Hence, either slightly decrease maintenance costs, or maybe just make trade units quicker to build.

    3) Observatories aren't absolutely vital. I presently like the way they work, as settling next to a mountain has trade-offs rather than being always positive (as settling on rivers still can be). Settling next to a single, lone mountain for Observatories is almost always great, so long as the spot doesn't take you away from other tiles you need. But settling next to a mountain range has pros and cons. So, I don't know if a change here is needed, really.
     
  10. Stonecutter9

    Stonecutter9 Rex Michiganensis

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    In the early game I am so often lacking for gold in BNW. Of course, you think a trade route would solve the problem. But with the limited range of land caravans, a land trade route may not be possible until the range is extended or more cities are founded. To often I find myself needing a trade route, but I have none available. Sea routes are less beneficial in the early game because they're more dangerous, Cargo Ships take longer to build, and they only work in coastal cities.

    So...landlocked, isolated cities SUCK.

    We need (or I need?) greater caravan range at the dawn of the game. Maybe the later extension of range could be nerfed, or eliminated, or postponed? I just hope SOMETHING is done in a future patch.

    Incidentally, has anyone noticed a departure from the traditional naming of civs? All the pre-BNW civs are listed (most prominently under the 'World Religions' tab) as '_________ Empire' (e.g. American Empire). While some of them don't make sense, like Hiawatha's 'iroquois Empire', they all contribute to a polished sense of conformity.

    But with BNW, some of the new civs are listed differently. It may be more accurate, but it looks silly and somewhat sloppy IMHO. For example, 'Shoshone', 'Republic of Venice', and 'Zulu Kingdom' are just odd exceptions that prove the rule. Have they retroactively done this with other pre-BNW civs? I hope not! :cringe:
     
  11. Polisurgist

    Polisurgist Chieftain

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    Really?!
     
  12. Stonecutter9

    Stonecutter9 Rex Michiganensis

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    THESE! :goodjob:

    You are a brilliant soul. :hatsoff::hatsoff::hatsoff::hatsoff::hatsoff:
     
  13. Helmling

    Helmling Philosopher King

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    Okay, so if I could make three tweaks...what would they be...hmmm

    1. I agree that early unit maintenance is a problem...but so is the lack of AI aggression in many games. These two problems stem from the same source: the lack of gold tiles. I say just throw them back in the mix. Let rivers and sea tiles give one gold again. Yes, there will be a lot more gold in play, but there's a lot more to build in this expansion. Currently everyone's locked in--you MUST establish international trade routes. Adding back in the gold tiles would open up more options and make the early game more varied and interesting.

    2. Broaden tourism. There should be more to it than great works. Stadiums should generate it. Every wonder should generate some based on its era. All culture should lead to tourism when connected via trade routes.

    3. Um...I don't know. I have a lot of big changes I'd like to see, but I can't think of a "tweak" right off the bat.
     
  14. Eunomiac

    Eunomiac Chieftain

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    Personally, I find this more realistic. Trade has always been an essential part of any civilization's economy (even in Civ: the gold bonus on river/coastal tiles was simply a representation of trade on those easily-navigable routes). Previously, Civilization hasn't made trade anywhere near as important as it is/was, so this is a welcome change in favor of realism to me. Farms and Mines have always been "must-haves"; BNW has just added another.
     
  15. cakes

    cakes Chieftain

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    one main tweak for me is to make quick movement also apply to aircraft. for some reason the iroquois kept shuffling planes back and forth between two cities every single turn, extending the waiting time far longer than it should have been.
     
  16. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    On Caravans vs Cargo ships; what I'd do is nerf the 2X food & production bonus cargo ships have over carvans instead of increasing food/production from caravans.

    For external trades, I'd also lean in the direction of nerfing cargo ships instead of boosting caravans but it's not as much of an issue on the maps I play on.

    Also, instead of reducing early unit maintenance, I'd reduce early game building maintenance. (I think my builder bias is showing)
     
  17. Calouste

    Calouste Chieftain

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    You can extend the range of land trade routes by building roads and the caravansaray building, both of which come fairly early in the tech tree.
     
  18. MadHaxxor

    MadHaxxor Chieftain

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    Hellll no. Rivers have enough benefit as it is. In pre BNW you were basically screwed if you didn't start near a river. And I don't mean just a couple tiles away, I mean no river within ~20 tiles of where you started. It's happened to me multiple times and it is just pure pain. Especially online, when you can't quit.
     
  19. MadHaxxor

    MadHaxxor Chieftain

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    I believe their is an option in the interface options menu to stop random unit skipping, I looked it up a while ago as it bothered me. And I think when you take an enemy holy city, you should gain that religion and all of it's founder bonuses and the ability to enhance it if it isn't already. Basically it becomes your religion, even if that means you get 2
     
  20. Jatta Pake

    Jatta Pake Chieftain

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    1. Great Worker - gets to be "planted" like other tile improvements. Options of a Channel (turns a land tile into a Sea and Land tile for movement purposes), Gotthard (tunnel through mountain tile), DMZ (does damage kinda like Citadel to enemy units moving through it), Strategic Air Base (lets you stack aircraft on a land tile like an aircraft carrier), Radar Installation (greatly expanded line of sight and combat defense bonus), and Terraform (turn one tile into something else like Dessert to Plains).

    Great Workers would be awesome.
     

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