[RD] The active mind/aging

[amadeus]

I put RD just to kinda keep focus. A little joke here and there doesn’t hurt, but keeping in mind that there is meant to be some discussion rather than just rattling off one-liners.

Anyway, I was reading a little about people that lived past the age of 110. Whether or not you think that’s something to work towards, in a sense, one theme in each of the folks I read about was that they kept themselves busy with some kind of pursuit where they kept their minds active.

Which got me to wonder: the brain can be put to use doing a lot of things, so are some things better than others? If somebody reads a dry math book over attentively watching a baseball game, is that better? One thing we think of is an intellectual pursuit, but does that translate later into some benefit that comes even without seriously applying the gained knowledge?

Are the goofy little projects that I take up, are they of any value beyond the modicum of entertainment there and then? I try to put effort into them, producing something.

I don’t know. “We,” if I can use the word, as a society seem to me to have a kind of bias towards one set of actions against another, and I don’t know if there’s really a qualitative difference. On the other hand, I could watch an hour of Maury Povich and I’m pretty sure it would cost me 60 minutes + n, n representing an unknown quantity of minutes of life lost post-broadcast.

Well, not sure where I’m going now with this! Posting it anyway!

 

[Samson]

I put RD just to kinda keep focus. A little joke here and there doesn’t hurt, but keeping in mind that there is meant to be some discussion rather than just rattling off one-liners.

Anyway, I was reading a little about people that lived past the age of 110. Whether or not you think that’s something to work towards, in a sense, one theme in each of the folks I read about was that they kept themselves busy with some kind of pursuit where they kept their minds active.

Which got me to wonder: the brain can be put to use doing a lot of things, so are some things better than others? If somebody reads a dry math book over attentively watching a baseball game, is that better? One thing we think of is an intellectual pursuit, but does that translate later into some benefit that comes even without seriously applying the gained knowledge?

Are the goofy little projects that I take up, are they of any value beyond the modicum of entertainment there and then? I try to put effort into them, producing something.

I don’t know. “We,” if I can use the word, as a society seem to me to have a kind of bias towards one set of actions against another, and I don’t know if there’s really a qualitative difference. On the other hand, I could watch an hour of Maury Povich and I’m pretty sure it would cost me 60 minutes + n, n representing an unknown quantity of minutes of life lost post-broadcast.

Well, not sure where I’m going now with this! Posting it anyway!

I think we do not know. We THINK that something like this helps, but the data is a bit sparse for even that. To pick apart the effect we will need a whole lot more money, and it is unlikely to result in a pill that will make someone loads of money so there is not the investment incentive to do the work.

This is the best I could find:

There were no randomised controlled trials located that met inclusion criteria. Thirteen observational studies were included in the review; the majority were cohort design. Because of the heterogeneity of interventions, the study design, the way in which they were grouped and the different stages of life they were measured at, statistical pooling was not appropriate.

• Actively participating in cognitive leisure activities during mid- or late life may be beneficial in preventing the risk of Alzheimer's disease and other dementias in the elderly; however, the evidence is currently not strong enough to infer a direct causal relationship.
  
  
• Participating in selected cognitive leisure activities may be more favourable than others but currently there is no strong evidence to recommend one over the other.

 

[red_elk]

From what I read, learning 2-3 languages is especially helpful in postponing or even preventing Alzheimer's.

If somebody reads a dry math book over attentively watching a baseball game, is that better?

I doubt attentively watching a baseball game requires much intellectual effort. Playing chess or solving puzzles IMO may be comparable or better than reading math books, depending on how much you enjoy reading them and whether you are going to use knowledge from them in practice.

 

[bernie14]

The Cognitive Reserve Hypothesis: A Longitudinal Examination of Age-Associated Declines in Reasoning and Processing Speed

bullet points avoided for obvious reasons

Cognitive reserve

you can always become a nun!!

 

[Samson]

I doubt attentively watching a baseball game requires much intellectual effort. Playing chess or solving puzzles IMO may be comparable or better than reading math books, depending on how much you enjoy reading them and whether you are going to use knowledge from them in practice.

But is it really "effort" that is the important thing? Might it be the endorphins for achievement (which we get by proxy from watching sports) that makes the difference?

Loads of papers use chess as the activity, so we can be pretty certain about that..

 

[red_elk]

But is it really "effort" that is the important thing? Might it be the endorphins for achievement (which we get by proxy from watching sports) that makes the difference?

Loads of papers use chess as the activity, so we can be pretty certain about that..

Just my opinion, but I'm sure that at least moderate amount of effort is required. Like with physical training, no pain, no gain.
Enjoying and endorphines are also important, as a motivation.

 

[amadeus]

I’m about to hit the hay here, but just a quick one!

I doubt attentively watching a baseball game requires much intellectual effort.

That’s the point of picking it as an example—does it matter? Someone following the game might be closely watching the first baseman, or the outfielders, or how the pitcher is throwing that day. It’s not an exact science by any means but the viewer can choose to amp up their focus on it if they’re a big fan.

 

[Samson]

Just my opinion, but I'm sure that at least moderate amount of effort is required.

That’s the point of picking it as an example—does it matter? Someone following the game might be closely watching the first baseman, or the outfielders, or how the pitcher is throwing that day. It’s not an exact science by any means but the viewer can choose to amp up their focus on it if they’re a big fan.

To clarify my point,we do not have the data to say if it matters. We do not have the data because we as a species have spent far more on Aducanumab than on brain training research. We spent more on Aducanumab 'cos we can make a pill and sell it for $56,000 per year.

 

[red_elk]

That’s the point of picking it as an example—does it matter? Someone following the game might be closely watching the first baseman, or the outfielders, or how the pitcher is throwing that day. It’s not an exact science by any means but the viewer can choose to amp up their focus on it if they’re a big fan.

We can't say for sure without scientific evidence.
But if somebody was comparing 80+ seniors by mind agility, I'd rather put my money on chess players than baseball watchers.

 

[Bruhmoment]

They live long because they pray to RNGesus every night

 

[Birdjaguar]

The easiest way to live long is to have long lived parents. Once you have that in your background, try to keep from doing stupid things and eating yourself into ill health.

 

[Samson]

The easiest way to live long is to have long lived parents. Once you have that in your background, try to keep from doing stupid things and eating yourself into ill health.

For some values of easiest. It is quite hard to control, and only contributes about 1/4 of your risk. I will bet that most of that is how fat you are, the main* gene involved is APOE, and that is all about lipid metabolism.

Spoiler * :

I say "main", but I mean the only gene that really reaches significance in GWAS studies. That only says we can find it, not that there are not others that may actually be more important. It is the peak on Chr 19 here:

 

[El_Machinae]

But is it really "effort" that is the important thing? Might it be the endorphins for achievement (which we get by proxy from watching sports) that makes the difference?

My suspicion is that the effort is what's required, since effortful learning is what changes the nature of how the knowledge (for lack of a better word) is stored. Whether this creates a redundancy effect or migrates the knowledge to better-protected architecture, I don't know.

Of course, endorphins help maintain effortful learning. But while watching sports and actively generating predictions of what will happen next (and triggering the reward when you were right or when you're surprised milliseconds later) will likely be 'effortful', it might not be creating a large enough knowledge base to be measurable elsewhere.

 

[Samson]

Of course the question we should invest most in answering is does Civ count?

 

[Birdjaguar]

idk about Civ, but I'm sure Path of Exile does!!