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The AI adopting religions

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by Arcite36575, Aug 27, 2008.

  1. Arcite36575

    Arcite36575 Warlord

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    Ok, here's a typical set of conditions I play for FFH. Say. . . Pangea, 18 civs, and last days. I really love an aggressive game, either good civs vs. evil civs, or just different factions fighting.

    However, I would say 90% of my games end up with 16 of the 18 factions as either FOL or ROK, and with everyone either good or neutral. Maybe one civ will take AV, and that civ either gets ruthlessly destroyed or capitulated quickly because it's the only civ that's evil and not FOL or ROK.

    Are there some ideas which would make the other religions a bit more accepted by the AIs?
     
  2. Pyr0mancer

    Pyr0mancer Prince

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    I'd say the main reason for the massive FoL/RoK adoption is due in part to your playing with 18 civs. 18 civs means the Ljosalfar and Khazad/Luchiurp are in the game, which means those religions get beelined for and founded very early. You know there is a game option 'remove religion: X' down near the bottom in Custom Game also, if it's really as bad as you say.
     
  3. Frederick0100

    Frederick0100 Chieftain

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    Aye pyr0mancer's right thats probably the reason why the civs are all mostly 1 religion. I often have the same thing, only once I had it where The Whole World was Ashen Veil and poor little me was the only good guy. Now that was a slash and burn game. IMHO the devs should make it so the civs have affinity for a certain religion so you dont have people like tebryn and sheela being RoK or FoL, they should only be allowed to have Ashen Veil or maybe OO. Vice Versa too
     
  4. Sarisin

    Sarisin Deity

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    I agree that if you have elves or dwarves in the game they will be the first to FOL and ROK respectively and it will spread to other civs quickly.

    However, why not select your 18 civs and leave them out of the game (if you can). Then, you have a better chance of founding one (or both) of these religions and can control a bit the spread.

    Honestly, I'm finding that AV is also getting beelined and Evil AI civs with a decent strength are founding it not that much after FOL and ROK and certainly before the Order and even OO. CoE and Empyrean seem to come last.

    Anyway, my first couple of .33 games there have been plenty of AV civs, although I play with only 11 civs, not 18.
     
  5. xanaqui42

    xanaqui42 King

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    You're mostly noting the religions that are founded first; if you rushed well to another religion (and tried to spread it), all three would be represented.

    Alternatively, you can get the the AI to do your dirty work. You have to play with the tech weights, either the direct weights, or the flavors. If you want different AI to behave differently, I'd set up a new flavor, and add it to a few leaders, and the tech for a religion. The tough part is getting the numbers right.
     
  6. Arcite36575

    Arcite36575 Warlord

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    I usually play immortal or deity. On deity, it's essentially impossible to found a religion, and usually anyways, founding a religion is a bit overrated anyways (unless you can get the holy city in your capital) IMO. Usually, I just accept whatever religion makes the most diplomatic sense until I can build up my civ.

    I like the idea that Pyr0mancer mentioned. I'll try banning all religions in my next game except AV and TO. Should be fun, but I'd rather not have to resort to such an extreme measure. A large part of the fun of this game (and any civ game) is dealing with so many layers of diplomacy and I wouldn't want every game to be a 9 vs 9 deathmatch.

    I also agree with Frederick0100 that most of the civs need to have a list of stronger affinities for some religions, and weaker ones for others.
     
  7. Nikis-Knight

    Nikis-Knight Deity

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    There is such a thing, but I don't think it affects their tech priorities, so if they have large empires of FoL before getting to their favorite they might not ever switch.
     
  8. Wauthan

    Wauthan Inaniloquent Nihiliarian

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    The mechanics behind the spread of religion can create some fairly hilarious results. Last game, on a pangea style map, was a ruthless war between the Council of Esus and the Order. CoE was founded and spearheaded by the Malakim and their Khazad allies. The Order was championed by me, as the Svartalfar, and my good friends, the Sheaim and Lanun. Pretty much as unfluffy as it gets. But it was a very fun game.

    I guess it was caused by the Malakim having an unusually large amount of both gold and cavalry, which meant that CoE spread like a plague. If it hadn't been missionary spawning ability of The Order the Malakim would have easily won a religious victory.
     
  9. Nikis-Knight

    Nikis-Knight Deity

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    I actually lost a game last week to the Ljo, as they won a religion victory. I'm just staring at my screen going wha...?
    Then in another game I had the Elohim under AV to war with.
     
  10. Stephenc369

    Stephenc369 Chieftain

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    The AI should be made more likely to switch to a religion of which it has the holy city. This would make for more interesting religious diversity.

    Also, either all alignment changing switches should be disabled, or none of them should. At the moment, it seems like everyone goes neutral early adopting overlords and kilmorph, and then AIs do not adopt veil and order because it will change their alignment.
     
  11. westamastaflash

    westamastaflash Lord Commander

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    Pangaea is part of the problem there.

    In general I think religions should only spread if you actually send disciples out to spread it. Also, early open borders means that the AI will sign deals with everyone just because they feel like it.

    Personally, I push open borders back to Trade tech, and map trading back to Astronomy.
     
  12. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    I think you should do something like the Total Realism mod; early religions (Runes, Leaves, OO) should spread slower by themselves than late-game religions (Order, Veil).
    Also you could slightly increase the cost of disciples.
     
  13. Marksman77

    Marksman77 Aethernaut

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    I believe it's been like that for a long time now.

    Definitely Pangaea and Open Borders cause the problem. I suffered a number of AIs religious victories, all with Leaves. It's never like that on mapscripts with more that one landmass or delayed contact between civs (erebus/creation).

    In my only game of .33 (no time to play :( ) Leaves went up to 68%, but from there I see a slow but constant decrease, as other religions are founded and spread. All non-agnostic AI's were Leaves, but recently Lanun under Hannah adopted OO (theirs is the Holy City) and Rhoanna adopted Runes (through random spread she has RoK in more cities that she has FoL) .
     
  14. Amerigo Arturo

    Amerigo Arturo Warlord

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    Order spreads like herpes already.
     
  15. rocklikeafool

    rocklikeafool Warmaster

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    Actually, it's worse. It has holy water.

    Ya know, wat I find rediculous tho is that when CoE and Empyrean are founded, they rarely, if ever, spread. The last time I remember a civ bein Empyrean was several versions ago. And it was the Bannor, which kinda fits, but the Bannor seem to be more of a Order type civ. Anyway, why the hell don't those 2 religions spread? And yes, I know I won't be able to see the CoE civs as CoE less I'm CoE, but I should see that they have no religion at all.
     
  16. Pyr0mancer

    Pyr0mancer Prince

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    CoE and Empyrean are the latest religions, with (I think) the highest tech requirements. As such, by the time they're founded there's little incentive for the AI to switch, since they've already got an established state religion.
     
  17. Camber

    Camber Resident Family Therapist

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    I'm currently playing a game with an advanced start at Classical Age. Charadon went straight for OO, Calabim went straight for FOL, Keelyn got AV, and Arturus Thorne got ROK as expected. Charadon and OO was the only thing I saw that was very different from what I usually see in my 16+ civs game. But the important thing was that because it was a Classical start, the religions has more of an equal chance to get a foothold, and I saw more OO civs than usual.
     
  18. westamastaflash

    westamastaflash Lord Commander

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    I'm not sure the AI really knows how to spread esus - since it doesn't have disciples, it has to station a nightwatch in a city without esus, then the autocast will spread it...
     
  19. Pyr0mancer

    Pyr0mancer Prince

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    on the other hand, since ANY unit with CoE religion can spread it, if the initial Esus city is a major unit-producing city it spreads pretty quickly. Well, if the AI has any gold. Which half the time it doesn't. Hmm.
     
  20. Chip56

    Chip56 King

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    Note: The gold in diplomacy is only a small amount of what the Ai really has. It just doesn't trade it unless you are perm. allied with it, in which casse it "seems" like its richer. But instead it only shows the whole money.

    Also the AI will only spread CoE if its the state religion, otherwise it never casts the spell.
     

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