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The AI can use a navy! At least against cities...

Discussion in 'CivBE - General Discussions' started by Greasy Dave, Oct 13, 2015.

  1. Greasy Dave

    Greasy Dave Prince

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    I've just been pleasantly surprised by the AI in a navy battle. It wasn't doing anything revolutionary. But it was using it's units tactically and completely surprised me.

    I should have taken screenshots.

    I was playing Apollo, NSA, small map, with ten civs. I'd found Soyuz fairly straightforward and figured I'd try pushing up the bar. I'm far from an expert player and shouldn't have been so ambitious.

    I won't bore you with the various mistakes I made leading up to it. By turn 90 I had 3 cities and one outpost (all water cities). I'd struggled to keep my relationships good with my neighbours and hutama, the Chinese and BRazil all DOWed me within a turn of each other.


    HUtama was the most interesting. He sent a bunch of land units to my outpost. I actually laughed and thought, great AI, trying to melee attack my outpost from the sea, duuh. I was the dumbo of course. I'd set up the outpost within 2 tiles of an island and he parked a couple of gunners on it and proceeded to pound the outpost to dust, with the other melee units acting as guards. When the defense was zero, a cutter came out of the fog and smacked it.

    On my cities he used subs - he parked 2 within two tiles of my 3rd city and bombarded it. My navy was stretched too thin across the four cities, so when I tried to use a cutter or two to spot the subs, they pounded them to nothing and then returned to the city. Once that was zero - a cutter came out of the fog and took it. Brazil used the same tactic on my capital.

    Like I said, nothing a human wouldn't try. But...far better than I had imagined.
     
  2. omniclast

    omniclast Prince

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    They build a metric butt-tonne of subs, that's for sure.

    Edit: fixed metric spelling of "butt-ton".
     
  3. Gorbles

    Gorbles Load Balanced

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    So far, they main Patrol boats against me. Quite a few subs, but a lot of Patrol Boats. T3 Combat Rovers too (with the hover).
     
  4. MasterEcabob

    MasterEcabob Warlord

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    Yeah, subs are absolutely deadly, and are surprisingly tanky too. Lategame, I often found it quicker to just go to ramming speed with my remote aquatic cities rather than sending out a melee ship to hunt them down.
     
  5. Galgus

    Galgus Emperor

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    The AI loves Submarines for some reason, which makes them a little annoying without really being a significant threat.

    Their main deficiency in naval wars is not building enough units, not replacing the units they lose well, and not retreating when the tide turns against them.

    Similar to their land-based issues really, but with the added quirk that a mostly land AI is even worse at guarding their sea cities.
     
  6. DST1348

    DST1348 Warlord

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    I had a game were both Hutama and I were fighting Han Jae Moon. I pounded one of his costal cities to 0 HP, and Hutama had three melee naval units within "one turn distance". Instead of taking the city, he backed off to the open waters :confused:

    Eventually he took the city, though.
     
  7. Verviedi

    Verviedi Chieftain

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    The AI absolutely loves Patrol Boats for some reason. While I was at war with ARC as Chungsu, my lone exploring Countess on the other side of the map was suddenly mobbed by 3 Broadsides.

    I then lost my capital to another Broadside swarm, that completely surrounded me.
     
  8. omniclast

    omniclast Prince

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    You often can't judge how many subs they have before going to war, either, since you can't see neutral subs even if you're beside them (unless they attack something like an alien). I'm hoping that's a bug.
     
  9. DST1348

    DST1348 Warlord

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    I thought the Spy Satellite can spot them. But I am not sure.
     
  10. GAGA Extrem

    GAGA Extrem Emperor

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    From my experience the AI seems to build several melee ships early on (between 2-4 most of the time on Soyuz) and then adds submarines somehwere between 1:1 and 1:2 ratio.
     
  11. Greasy Dave

    Greasy Dave Prince

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    didn't know that. Which satellite exactly? I shall look into researching and launching.
     
  12. SahintheFalcon

    SahintheFalcon Chieftain

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    This. If you deploy your men incorrectly, the AI won't hesitate to punish you for it. But they need large numbers of troops for this to happen, and they tend to not make enough.
     
  13. kipwheeler

    kipwheeler Warlord

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    In my experience, the AI loves to park them either subs or patrol boats in bundles about 7-8 tiles away from your city before he commences a DOW against you, and he often likes to re-use the same spot in different wars.

    Once the war has begun and the first wave of attacks has been beaten away, and the AI is replenishing its patrol boats or ground troops, however, it will tend to park the subs in that same location while it waits for its next wave of reinforcements.

    I've had good luck with loading my nearest city with tacjets (they have an attack range of 10 now!), then sending a single submarine or two in the spot where the AI has been parking its ships 7-8 tiles away. When the AI starts moving subs into his preferred parking spot, they have their invisibility broken by my hidden sub sitting where they want to park. Before the AI can react to the fact there's already a sub where he wants to go, the player can then pummel them with three strafing runs from the tacjets and finish them off with a single torpedo shot from each of your waiting sub. Works like a charm. :cool:
     
  14. Makavcio

    Makavcio Prince

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    In my opinion, AI is still awful. Why? Mostly because it's completely oblivious to all threats to its naval units.

    AI can't use the fact that submarines are invisible only in certain situation. If my unit happens to park near 3 of them, they will not move back to attack when invisible. They'll just sit where they are. It includes squatting right next to a city.

    Same goes for other kinds of ships. Haven't seen an AI performing a 3-tile bombardment even once, even though they were capable of it. When attacking a coastal city with only one adjacent coast tile, AI will simply ram a single unit against the city dealing less dmg than is healed per turn. The rest will just swarm behind it. Every single unit in range of bombardment from shore and from the city itself.

    AIs fighting for aquatic cities against other AI is a circus. They completely ignore the fact that there are hostile units nearby. They will use all the bombardment they have against the city, conquer it, then lose it right after with their conquering unit inside, get kicked some more by enemy units still inside (bombardment depleted, because AI tends to bombard cities even with 0hp), and then the other side gets to do exactly the same. If cities were losing population when conquered, all aquatic cities would be pulverized to pulp in every war.

    Still, the best thing is that AI is completely oblivious to the fact that all satellites count as standard units when it comes to discovering submarines. They'll park right under a satellite and think they are invisible.

    Did I mention that despite 80% bonus against aliens (I think it was 80% on Apollo), AI tends to lose aquatic capitals to them all the time?
     

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