The AI is cheating, isn't it?

[TheMeInTeam]

The AI in the civ series always played by different rules.
You can call them cheats or bonuses, it helped the AI to be competitve.
It depends on the player how many "cheats" he or she will tolerate.
Although Firaxis called it a "bug", but the unlimited missile range for the AI in SMAC was not acceptable to me.

For the purpose of semantics, cheats are distinguishable from deliberate handicaps. Playing on a low difficulty isn't cheating any more than AI bonuses on high difficulties are cheating. There is a pretty strong contrast between such bonuses and the ability to access information the player can't access with no in-game way for the player to even know the AI is accessing that information.

 

[Seraiel]

I'm amazed, at how many people still tried to help the thread-starter, when he was gone for long, and how long their posts are. Probably a complete waste, because his reaction to AI having some slight bonuses, while having tons of maluses, was to patch those out, so that he gets a "fair" game on "medium difficulty" (-> Warrior-rush 3 civs and still have trouble to keep the tech-pace) .

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I'm amazed, at how many people still tried to help the thread-starter, when he was gone for long, and how long their posts are. Probably a complete waste, because his reaction to AI having some slight bonuses, while having tons of maluses, was to patch those out, so that he gets a "fair" game on "medium difficulty" (-> Warrior-rush 3 civs and still have trouble to keep the tech-pace) .

While I agree that the attitude represented in the OP has predictive value for perpetual intermediacy, I don't see any point in harping on that beyond the fact that he needs to change perspective to improve to high levels of play. If one concludes the thread is a lost cause because of its opening post, the quoted post doesn't make sense; the sensible option would be to ignore the thread outright.

Those of us trying to help him have various motivations for doing so, and said responses can be read usefully by more than just OP.

 

[Seraiel]

While I agree that the attitude represented in the OP has predictive value for perpetual intermediacy, I don't see any point in harping on that beyond the fact that he needs to change perspective to improve to high levels of play. If one concludes the thread is a lost cause because of its opening post, the quoted post doesn't make sense; the sensible option would be to ignore the thread outright.

Those of us trying to help him have various motivations for doing so, and said responses can be read usefully by more than just OP.

How can you demand for me to stay away from such excellent drama?

I'll better go now, otherwise Leif warns me because of trolling again .

 

[SittingButt]

I for one appreciate the feedback that has been given on this thread. And no I didn't register just to post this comment. I figured after several years of lurking I might as well join up and improve my Civ IV skills.

 

[Seraiel]

Welcome

 

[SittingButt]

Welcome

Thanks Seraiel! I seen many of your posts as a lurker. Civ IV is still a true classic.

 

[Bjarkov]

AIs cheat. The higher difficulty, the more they cheat. They get production bonuses, research bonuses, gold bonuses, diplomacy bonuses, espionage bonuses, culture bonuses (basicly the only bonuses they don't get are combat-related bonuses)
They get this to keep them on par with players at the various levels. Players are far better equipped to handle decisions than the civ AI is, and if the AIs did not get bonuses the game would be very easy to beat.
If you struggle on your difficulty, focus on improving your skills. Don't worry about the AI perks

 

[2pt0]

AIs cheat. The higher difficulty, the more they cheat. They get production bonuses, research bonuses, gold bonuses, diplomacy bonuses, espionage bonuses, culture bonuses (basicly the only bonuses they don't get are combat-related bonuses)
They get this to keep them on par with players at the various levels. Players are far better equipped to handle decisions than the civ AI is, and if the AIs did not get bonuses the game would be very easy to beat.
If you struggle on your difficulty, focus on improving your skills. Don't worry about the AI perks

I don't get how this is "cheating". This is how the AI is programmed.

 

[bhavv]

Warrior rush like this is just far too much cheese.

 

[Tatran]

I don't know how many tiles the AI has line of sight, but it is too much.
That barb galley came from the west and pillaged an unprotected crab fishnet.
In general it is extremely annoying when your fishnets are getting pillaged over and over again.

 

[Seraiel]

The AI can look as far as it can move. That's necessary, because the AI has no plan when moving units, it "lives completely in the moment" , therefore it can't make plans like "move to A and destroy B" unless it can see it. This can also be exploited positively by the player, like when he uses distraction-warriors to make the AI's SoD march in the wrong direction, because it chooses the Warrior as a target. AI sets a new target every turn, so with enough distraction-troops, it's possible that an AI will walk in a completely different direction than it would do otherwise.

 

[Pangaea]

It may be needed so the AI ships don't just move around in circles, but it can be very frustrating in the later-ish eras when the AI can come from nowhere an obliterate your ships because they can see 8 tiles or whatever. Nobody in sight anywhere, "this should be safe", then BOOM, they come out of the shadows from every which direction, and there is red line after red line in the log with lost ships.

 

[Seraiel]

The AI usually makes the fault of stationing its complete navy or the greatest part of it in a certain city, so it's quite easy to sink 90% of its ships on the 1T of the war through conquering that city. That's even something only the player can do, because the AI cannot scout with ships, so the human again has the greater advantage.

 

[pigswill]

In one sense the AI never cheats because the AI always play by a consistent set of rules and lacks the creativity to exploit contradictions within the rule set. In another sense the game designers 'cheat' because the AI play by a different set of rules to the human player and some of these rules aren't made explicit. If the game designers were to make the AI rules explicit (e.g. AIs start with 10 hammers towards a warrior) the player would know what to expect and plan accordingly.

 

[elmurcis]

Exploit AI.. I love it For example I have near neigbour on different islands chain... than I place settler on island next to AI borders and wait for galleys stack to come (100% sure that Ai will attack because no OB yet)... than I build that city and AI attacks it, raze it and stay there with all units it had on galleys forever after that I can move in my unit stack to actual target and forget about these units until civ is destroyed AI will never do like that...

 

[BornInCantaloup]

I don't know how many tiles the AI has line of sight, but it is too much.
That barb galley came from the west and pillaged an unprotected crab fishnet.
In general it is extremely annoying when your fishnets are getting pillaged over and over again.

Seven tiles radar for barb galleys.
Barb galleys won't enter a territory unless they can spot a unit to attack or fishing boats to pillage. If you want to avoid them completely, you can spawnbust that far (7 tiles from a potential target).
Then of course they can be lured into your territory by workboats. Barb galleys chase workboats with the highest priority (so you can lure them out yourself, provided you have a workboat).
For safety purposes, stationing a galley at the edge of one's borders is the worst possible move, since it will attract all barb galleys in the vicinity and you can't fortify ^^

Not sure whether the sight range is different on land or not.
TMIT says (I don't know where it comes from) :

The AI has a few cheats hidden that apply to it at all difficulties, even those that incur penalties as well. Starting 10 hammers, ability to look up your exact military power, sight through fog anywhere its units can travel, maphacking to tell if you've traded with its worst enemies before you've even met it, occasionally making your worst enemy on sight.

 

[Seraiel]

I read AI can move as far as it can see, and that was from a thread, where that info was even graphically presented, is that really wrong? I never heard of a 7 tiles radar until now.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

A stack of units can target a city from the other side of the map, yes, if that's what you mean.
It's possible that once they've uncovered the city, the AI knows at all time the status of the garrison, etc.
Same for barb land units. They can base their targets on the land that has been uncovered (targeting the less defended cities from all sides of a map... eek!).

Naval units may or may not work differently.
I don't read code either, but it's stated extensively that barb galleys won't target anything past 7 tiles. Maybe they can see past that but can't target, I do not know.

I suppose land =/= sea
Or just the barb galley is an exception.


EDIT : thanks, elitetroops, that's a good read all around.

 

[elitetroops]

I read AI can move as far as it can see, and that was from a thread, where that info was even graphically presented, is that really wrong? I never heard of a 7 tiles radar until now.

The 7 tiles radar is only for improvements that has been in place 20 turns or more. The radar for spotting ships is 4 tiles, or ships it can attack this turn or the next.

More info on barb galley behavior by DanF here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=7477646#post7477646